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Marple Stories

Christie never intended Miss Marple to rival Poirot in the publics affections, but this spinster sleuth soon proved a hit with the public.  Here's the place to discuss her stories - but beware spoilers!

If you can't find your favourite Miss Marple story, don't worry - more will be added shortly.

Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

Nemesis

Moderator1 10 Nov 09 at 12:02 p.m. GMT

Miss Marple is sad to read about the death of Jason Rafiel whom she had 'worked' with two years previously.  His executor contacts her with a proposition that she should investigate a crime as Mr Rafiel requested in his will.  No further details are given but in a letter she receives, written by Rafiel before his death, he suggests she takes a coach tour around Britian's great gardens.  Too intrigued to turn it down, Miss Marple embarks on one of her most interesting, and dangerous, cases.

This was the last Miss Marple novel that Christie wrote - is there any sense that this is to be Jane Marple's last outing?  Could Christie have written it so that Miss Marple clashed once again with Rafiel?

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Tommy_A_Jones 04 Jan 12 at 1:46 p.m. GMT

These days we call things what they are but in those days people's sensibilities werre taken into account so Rape might have taken place even though the word was not mentioned and the Mother might have encouraged to think something was rape when the Girl might have been willing at the time and only afterwards regretted her Actions.

Sogba 03 Jan 12 at 12:15 a.m. GMT

I would like people's opinions on the representation of rape in Nemesis.  It was the one thing about the book that I found truly infuriating.  Quotes like: 'Well, we all know what rape is nowadays.' and the suggestion that a girl 'Doesn't stop badgering him until she's forced him to sleep with her.  Then, as I say, mum tells the girl to call it rape.'

Honestly, I am not that bothered by things like plot holes (how does X know Y is a threat to them, etc.) but this is something that really bothered me.

I would like to know what other people think.

Tommy_A_Jones 12 Nov 11 at 3:03 p.m. GMT

It was Geraldine McKewan that did the ITV version not Julia McKenzie

lgw 11 Nov 11 at 4:21 p.m. GMT

This is probably my second favourite Miss Marple book.  I loved the intrigue and twists.  Think I will reread it over the new year.  Thanks for reminding me about it. 

Tommy_A_Jones 08 Nov 11 at 1:59 p.m. GMT

I hated the ITV version, If ITV are thinking of redoing it prperly PLEASE DO. DITTO with Body In The Library and 4.50 From Paddington

murder_is_easy123 16 Oct 11 at 10:09 a.m. GMT

Not Christie's best, but it is still an absorbing and challenging read.  Miss Marple is once again out of the comfort zone of St Mary Mead, which adds to the excitement.  And the way she traps the killer is brilliant.  The killer themselves is possibly the most frightening and mad of every murderer in a Christie novel!

The 1987 adaptation is very good, and sticks true to the novel.  The cast includes Joan Hickson, Margaret Tyzack, Peter Tilbury, Anna Cropper and Helen Cherry

AriadneOliver491 05 Oct 11 at 9:26 p.m. GMT

i LOVE Nemesis and was very disappointed with the Julia McKenzie dramatization. IT WASNT A NUN WHO KILLED VERITY, IT WAS HER AUNT CLOTILDE!!!!!! I am very upset.

Roger_Ackroyd1926 18 Mar 11 at 2:53 p.m. GMT

Just enjoyed a re-read of NEMESIS for the first time since 1973 (though I've watched the Joan Hickson TV movie several times - even with some modifications, I still think it's one of the best) - I've retained a particular fondness for this novel - it's Mrs. Christie's best post-ENDLESS NIGHT writing and plotting, and has a particularly sad, elegiac quality to it, perhaps because it is so much about loss.  I feel it would have made a far more suitable 'last case' for Miss Marple than did SLEEPING MURDER (about which there's nothing 'last case' at all - do current editions even still carry this as a sub-title?) - NEMESIS leaves us with the assurance that Miss Marple will spend her final years in comfort thanks to Mr. Rafiel's 20,000-pounds, and that she'll certainly enjoy being able to treat herself to partridges from time to time!

Tommy_A_Jones 16 Feb 11 at 3:19 p.m. GMT

They Do It With Mirrors is a book I can't stand either, it is most definitely my least favourite Miss Marple book by a Long way but to say I hate it would be too harsh, I would leave that for Sparkling Cyanide, Endless Night, Death Comes As The End and Passenger to Frankfurt that one and Endless Night really are 2 books desperately in need of a Plot. at least with They Do It With Mirrors you know what it is about but there again the only Characters I liked (And I might have changed my mind) are The Detective and Miss Marple, I agree the Book is Unforgettable Unfortunately.

IMHO although And Then There Were None is good Why Didn't They Ask Evans? and The Sittaford Mystery are Better.

Mr_west 15 Feb 11 at 7:57 p.m. GMT

I hate They Do It With Mirrors, now that is one of her worst (maybe even the worst), I hated all the characters, the setting was not really interesting and the murder trick was very easy to understand

Lone_Wolf 15 Feb 11 at 7:45 p.m. GMT

"I think it is better than Pocketfull of Rye and Caribbean Mystery and definitely better than They Do It With Mirrors but that is just My Opinion, Oh yes and don't forget Sparkling Cyanide Which ones do you mean by the best of the worst?"

Caribbean Mystery, while fairly uninspired, aviods the rambling syndrome due to its short length. Sparkling Cyanide has a couple of interesting elements, though a dissapointment on the whole.

Mirrors, however, I found to be indeed worse then Nemesis. The setting of that novel feels very incomplete, plus a Family Unfriendly Aesop in the end to boot!

I like discussing mediocre and bad literature more then good one.

Mr_west 15 Feb 11 at 7:35 p.m. GMT

writing became hard for Christie in her late years. 

you can't expect her to write a masterpiecec like And Then There Were None in her age! she wrote as much as she could, and I agree most of her worst works were when she was old and sick.

 Nemesis is certainly not her best MM book, but it has some good parts and not only dull parts.

I think the realtionships between Clotilde and Verity is the most interesting point of the book, what a weird think could love be, and what it can make you do. it's very tragic, and miss Marple describe that very well when she explain the mystery. 

go_leafs_nation 15 Feb 11 at 6:32 p.m. GMT

The last books AC wrote marked a rapid decline in quality, and we got such unforgettable works like Passaenger to Frankfurt. (Unforgettable for all the wrong reasons, that is.) I think Lone_Wolf may be referring to that.

Tommy_A_Jones 15 Feb 11 at 4:08 p.m. GMT

I think it is better than Pocketfull of Rye and Caribbean Mystery and definitely better than They Do It With Mirrors but that is just My Opinion, Oh yes and don't forget Sparkling Cyanide Which ones do you mean by the best of the worst?

Lone_Wolf 15 Feb 11 at 3:40 p.m. GMT

I'd say that Nemеsis is the best of the worst.

Tommy_A_Jones 15 Feb 11 at 2:56 p.m. GMT

I accept there is a difference between Cleverly worded traps and the 'Unfairness' you see in Nemesis although I don't see it and I totally disagree with you when you say the Investigations are dull in Nemesis, I personally would use the word dull to describe some of the other books but not the investigations in 'Nemesis' I am sorry you don't like the book, Quoting DLS and Bernard shows you have a greater Literary Knowledge than me and that is something I applaud however much I think you are misguided in your feelings of this book just like I am surely mistaken in my views with some books like Passenger to Frankfurt, Death Comes As The End, Endless Night and Lord Edgware Dies which I personally dislike.  

go_leafs_nation 15 Feb 11 at 2:03 p.m. GMT

There's a difference between the cleverly worded traps many readers fall into in Roger Ackroyd and the dull investigations of Nemesis. As Dorothy Sayers pointed out, it's the reader's business to suspect everyone. The concept of fair play has to do with how well the clues are placed and given to the reader. Thus, when the murderer appears pages before the solution in Postern of Fate, it is cheating. Thus, when the odds of something happening are rivaled only by the odds of the detective figuring out that they happened that way, it feels like a swindle.

I still don't buy the explanation. No one would ever act that way. It's too risky and too contrived. You have to pile excuse after excuse on this book to create the illusion of plausibility, and as Barnard says, it's neither interesting nor profitable.

Tommy_A_Jones 15 Feb 11 at 1:46 p.m. GMT

Jason Raphiel doesn't give Miss Marple a Himnt because to do so might affect her judgement as I have already said I think and he doesn't want to say or do anything which might influence her apart from inlist the help of Miss Cooke, Miss Barrow, Professor Wanstead and Miss Temple and get The Bradbury-Scott's to introduce themselves to Miss Marple, to call it uninspired cheating is if I may say so Contradictory of you as I call the end of some books cheating and if I am not mistaken you have criticised me for doing so, Agatha Christie isn't the first Author I am sure not to dot all the Is and Cross all the Ts and I dare say she won't be the last, I can see we are feel differently about this book, to say the Plot is week is not right IMHO, It is IMHO one of the better Books Agatha Christie wrote. 

go_leafs_nation 14 Feb 11 at 8:20 p.m. GMT

So why does Rafiel tell Cooke and Barrow, but withhold such a hint from MM, whom he's enlisted to help him? Wouldn't a little hint along the lines of "keep your eye on Lady Horsefeather" or "I never trusted that great big oaf Bates" help figure out what she's investigating, or who the suspects are, or whatever?

The problem with just using the excuse "the plot says so" is because it's stupid. If the entire solution hinges on the fact that the victim had to look at the ceiling at precisely 7:20:18 pm and the author provides no earthly reason WHY the victim did such a thing at that particular time, it is uninspired cheating, no more. Similarly, handwaving and using "the plot says so" inspires the feeling of being swindled, especially in the case of a weak plot as in Nemesis. If a book has a stronger plot, people might not mind so much. This plot barely exists.

Robert Barnard puts it best. "Miss Marple is sent on a tour of stately gardens by Mr Rafiel. The garden paths we are led up are neither enticing nor profitable. All the usual strictures about late Christie apply."

Tommy_A_Jones 14 Feb 11 at 5:05 p.m. GMT

Knowing something and being able to prove it is 2 different things, perhaps he wasn't in a Position to get Evidence and Miss Cooke and Miss Barrow aren't the type of people the Bradbury-Scott's and Miss Glyn would invite into their home without them asking Jason Raphiel why and he couldn't really tell them could he? Prerhaps the Police wouldn't start an investigation on the Flimsy evidence he might have hadf, Perhaps he wanted a2nd Opinion before going to the Police, he is a shrewd Man who would want to Mull things over and take advice from someone he trusted like Miss Marple before taking such action and anyway what is wrong with letting things hapen in a certain way because 'the plot says so'? If it wasn't for th Plot there would be no book, that is like saying that a Character in a Film sahouldn't do something the Viewers know they shouldn't, if they didn't the Film would be very short and it is the same with this, if Raphiel had told the Police thre would be no book, It wasn't me who first asked how Miss Marpe knew about the Treatment in Switzerland I wass just trying to show that not everything is always explained and left to the Reader to Ponder about.