Book Club

Non-Series Novels & Stories

For those of you wanting to discuss Agatha Christie's standalone books, such as And Then There Were None. 

Beware spoilers and remember we'll be able to add the most insightful comments to the stories section. 

If you can't find your favourite one, don't worry, we'll be adding them in the coming weeks.

Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

The Pale Horse

Moderator1 16 Nov 09 at 12:52 p.m. GMT

Mark Easterbrook knows all about Mogul architecture but little about investigating murder.  Unfortunately he seems to be drawn towards the latter, and the three witches who inhabit the Pale Horse inn.  Do they really have the powers they claim or could they be at the heart of these murders?  Mark has to learn quickly who he can trust or he might be the next victim.

This book gives Ariadne Oliver her chance to shine without Poirot.  Does she do the story justice?  Do she and Mark Easterbrook make a good team?

Login or register to add posts and reply

39 replies

Reverse order

treplag 03 Feb 12 at 8:38 p.m. GMT

I read the book quite recently, and there is no character in it by that name (in my edition, at any rate).  I believe that in TEN LITTLE INDIANS, the character who invites everyone to the island has a similar, if not identical, moniker. 

I quite agree with your impatience regarding the changes made when the books are adapted.  So many, if not all, are utterly pointless.

TheLastWord 03 Feb 12 at 7:44 p.m. GMT

[ An extra thought re the TV adaptations of A.C.'s books, in general ! : ]

I suppose it doesn't help that there is added confusion  to the plots due to the different adaptations: in this 2010 version Miss Marple is the detective; whereas in the book Ariadne Oliver was the detective; and in the earlier (1997) TV version there was no 'detective' in the story (instead the Easterbrook character did the detective work himself).

I don't know WHY these TV companies keep messing about with the characters cf. the original stories . . . hurumph!!

TheLastWord 03 Feb 12 at 7:38 p.m. GMT

Book vs TV: is the ref to character "I. M. Noon" in the novel?!

BTW, I have also started a similar thread at the 'TV & Film' section (see: ...have-your-say/television-and-film/imnoon-tvthe-pale-horse/). I am also posting this query here as I hope that someone who has read this novel (unlike myself), may be able to help further?!

I recently watched the 2010 TV "Marple: The Pale Horse". Whilst watching, I made a note that one of the characters refers to someone named "I. M. Noon".

This was clearly - even from my poor recollection - a creation by the scriptwriter of a deliberate homonym(?!): matching "I am no one". Other than that, I can't remember re the purpose of the phrase.

I just wondered if the homonym is in the book & why it wasn't - to my recollection - referred to in the 1997 TV version, recently also seen.

It seemed the kind of 'wordy' thing that a scriptwriter would pick up on if it was in the A.C. novel & include in their script. So: WAS it in the book? To check, I have been Googling etc. to see if there is any ref online, but I can't find it anywhere!

My note was just a doodle really, that I made at the time . . . but now it's bothering me, the way things can do!!

Any ideas re this ref. to "I. M. Noon"? Is it in the book? What does it relate to? All help appreciated!!

P.S. I shall have to get a copy of the novel, of course . . .

GKCfan 16 Oct 11 at 5:43 p.m. GMT

The "crossover" characters in The Pale Horse are:

Cards on the Table- Major (now Colonel) Despard (his first name was John in Cards and Hugh in Horse) and Rhoda Dawes 

The Moving Finger- Rev. & Mrs. Dane Calthorp

Multiple Poirot Novels and Pyne Short Stories- Mrs. Ariadne Oliver

Sleeping Murder & By the Pricking of My Thumbs- Mrs. Lancaster, the "crazy old lady with a glass of milk," is referenced.

murder_is_easy123 16 Oct 11 at 10:23 a.m. GMT

Terrifying!  Especially the 2010 film!

Tommy_A_Jones 05 Apr 11 at 3:30 p.m. GMT

There weren't that many were there? Only 5, As there were some from Poirot Novels and Dane Calthorpe from a Miss Marple book it would have been nice if someone like Albert from the Tommy and Tuppence books had been in it and some from Non-series Novels but saying that I liked the book and found the only chapters I didn't like were really Crucial to the Plot.

Mr_Graves 05 Apr 11 at 2:41 a.m. GMT

I do agree it was odd that so many characters made a reappearance with the wrong people. But all in all, I couldn't fault this book. So up to date (for 1961) and so Agatha Christie. I love how the hair loss motif was so frequent, and yet, just like Agatha Christie, she drew no attention to it. At least, I didn't notice! Not the sort of format one would expect, but this mystery had a great atmosphere and very memorable characters. Somehow, I had already discovered who 'did it' (the problem with Wikipedia) but still I found myself marveling at AC's skill with detective fiction. As always!

ChristieFanBlogger 01 Feb 11 at 3:11 p.m. GMT

This was such an odd book. I wasn’t sure how to take it all. It was all about the occult, or so I worried.  Her serial detectives weren’t in it, but the supporting character who I always assume to be Ms. Christie herself, Ariadne Oliver, was. I was concerned Ms. Christie had gone over the edge. That she had run out of regular old murder plot ideas and had gone off into fantasy land with chicken sacrifices and murder by remote control. Stupid me.  I love how she can still trick me again and again.  The witches were an alibi just like switched bodies or turned back clock hands and I fell for them!

go_leafs_nation 06 Mar 10 at 3:39 p.m. GMT

Dr. Patrick O'Riordan, puffing his pipe, declares that the book could've quite simply been removed from the collection because of other arrivals or a replacement copy. Goodness knows that half the John Dickson Carr books I own came out of someone's personal library- they marked the first page with some of sort of combination of stamp and hole-punch.

MissQuin 06 Mar 10 at 3 p.m. GMT

Maybe the device was taken out, or disabled as how else was it taken off the ship? Sounds like a plot for AC, The Case Of The Disappearing Library Book..

HeiseiHolmes 05 Mar 10 at 3:27 p.m. GMT

I finally got and read it! Apparently, the second-hand copy I got used to be part of a library on a cruise chip, the Queen Mary 2. I looked it up- it's huge! There's a label on the back of the book that says "This book has been fitted with a device that may affect security systems if taken off the ship. Please return it  to the library before leaving." I'm searching for said device right now, but I can't find it.

The book was so great! And I heard it saved about 3 lives... very cool. I liked how Mrs Oliver was Poirot-less for once, since I always associate her with Poirot.

Lone_Wolf 05 Mar 10 at 2:25 p.m. GMT

I assume the Bible quotation was meant to make a thematic sense or something.

go_leafs_nation 05 Mar 10 at 1:17 p.m. GMT

The Bible quotation from which the title is derived is almost irrelevant to the story. Mrs. Calthorp recites it near the end, but there isn't much to tie the two together after that. The only thing that really comes close is how anyone on the list turns up dead...

AndreaWilkins 05 Mar 10 at 10:17 a.m. GMT

I haven't read the book yet, so it's next on my list!! - there has been an adaptation on the television recently and although i didn't watch it all (because i wanted to read the book first) my sister had said that it differs quite a lot from the original story. I was disappointed then because i do like to watch the adaptations, but glad that i waited to read the book first :)

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 5:05 p.m. GMT

I gave me an idea for another topic, too! You can find it in Miscellaneous.

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 4:54 p.m. GMT

Sounds fun! I'll check it out.

MissQuin 04 Mar 10 at 4:49 p.m. GMT

Youve given me an idea for a topic! I put it into non series posts.

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 4:41 p.m. GMT

Ahhh. I heard that chapter of the Bible is pretty scary. Must be good to find titles for books there, if it's as creepy as they say...

MissQuin 04 Mar 10 at 4:37 p.m. GMT

The Pale Horse is mentioned in Revelation 6:8, where it is ridden by Death. From wikipedia. It's in the bible. The Pale Horse is the name of an old inn, in the book.

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 4:31 p.m. GMT

It should come soon, though, since it was about a week ago from a seller in UK that I ordered it. I don't know a lot about Amazon, since I use eBay far more frequently... But getting back to the book, where does the title come from? Is it a quote, like some other ones?

MissQuin 04 Mar 10 at 4:26 p.m. GMT

Oh, I understand, it's from amazon marketplace. I was talking about the brand new itmes. They come in about 1 day! Plus mega cheap.

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 4:23 p.m. GMT

No, I just skim read it. I think Amazon depends on who's selling it, but it only cost literally 2 pence. (and £2 something for post and packaging, but that isn't what they were charging for the book.)

MissQuin 04 Mar 10 at 4:19 p.m. GMT

Ive always found amazon super quick, so I'm suprised. Maybe it's down to where you live. Have you found out who the murderer is by reading this?

HeiseiHolmes 04 Mar 10 at 4:16 p.m. GMT

I ordered a copy from Amazon but it's taking so long to arrive. Reading all these comments makes me want it even more!

cameronjhw 25 Feb 10 at 9:55 p.m. GMT

I really enjoyed this book even though it is set in the 1960's but I think it makes time period more convincing because times were changing she has moved from the war-time periods of the 30's and 40's and onto the complex and strange world of the 60's. I was not prepared for what happened in the novel. I was shocked when I read of Father Gorman's murder. Then when the story shifts to the village of Much Deeping with the three ladies at the Pale Horse it became more serious and disturbing. The three women shocked me in that they believe in witchcraft and they enjoy it. When I got to the character of Mr. Bradley the lawyer I could not believe it that people would go to him and make a kind of bet determining when a person dies and how he goes to the three ladies to make that happen. When I read the scene where Mark attends the seance it was terrifying and creepy. I was surprised by the method for the murders and I was even more surprised by the identity of the leader of this gang who also turned out to be Gorman's killer. The witchcraft motif is very clever and shocking but it points out the evil that is loose in the world and how people can use that evil for their own purposes. But after the case is solved the world and everything is back to normal and Mark marries Ginger Corrigan. This is great. Do you think the title is appropriate. It does come from a quote from the book of Revealation in the Bible. Find the quote and tell me does this apply to the novel. I believe it does because it shows evil in two ways: 1. the mortal kind done by people and 2. the kind that is done by Satan who is totally evil and wicked. Also in the novel the good overcomes the evil.

Lone_Wolf 19 Feb 10 at 4:50 p.m. GMT

One of her best late novels, definitely. The beginning and the ending are very good (I didn't mind miss Oliver at all), though I felt that more could have been done with the character of Mark. He starts of very promisingly, with his ruminations on the hint of danger in household noises - one of the best Christie beginnings - but soon starts to be pretty mediocre, with occasional flashes of originality. To liven his character up, more could've been done with his profession, which didn't really play any role in the plot. More could've been done with Ginger also, she's a bit of a generic_spunky_thing_01.

I liked the high themes introduced by the title and by mrs. Calthrop's participation in the narrative.

4/5.

I also wrote a more detailed review in August on that site, when I first read the book. Thanks to Dame Agatha for continuing to brighten my life so far.

MissQuin 19 Feb 10 at 3:31 p.m. GMT

Ive just finnished reading the Pale horse.

It was quite creepy but I actually found Murder is Easy scarier. It would have been more sinsiter without Mrs Oliver and the Poirot and Marple charcaters. But that not might be a good thing.

I did work out the solution, but it was still very good.

bookworm_2010 03 Jan 10 at 4:42 p.m. GMT

I loved it! While reading it I was a bit annoyed with the supernatural stuff and then - WOW the solution! Great!

MariaCaterina 03 Dec 09 at 8:21 a.m. GMT

Go Leafs

Thank you for the information about the Bovingdon Bug - I had never heard of him.

Found all the info on www.murderuk.com

MariaCaterina 03 Dec 09 at 8:15 a.m. GMT

I don't agree that Ariadne Oliver adds to The Pale Horse. I found her the only annoying person in the entire story which is one of my all-time favourites. Mrs Dane Calthorp was the perfect "Hastings" (though much more on-the-spot than Hastings!) for Mark Easterbrook; those two made a great team.

The move from the Supernatural into the clever murders was brilliant! A prime example of Agatha's talents. 

Puffinjill 26 Nov 09 at 4:26 p.m. GMT

I remember watching a TV drama about that case a few years ago, but I hadn't thought of the link between those deaths and the book until now.

go_leafs_nation 24 Nov 09 at 5:01 p.m. GMT

Of course, as AC fans may know, two or three times, someone who read The Pale Horse was able to help catch a killer. One was the infamous "Bovingdon Bug".

Puffinjill 20 Nov 09 at 6:57 p.m. GMT

That's exactly what I meant, go leafs. Mrs Oliver lends the book a touch of normality (if that word can ever be used to describe the dear old thing!) and a glimpse of the wider world. Having these scences spaced throughout the book heightens the ever-increasing claustrophobic atmosphere present during the rest of the narrative.

go_leafs_nation 20 Nov 09 at 10:56 a.m. GMT

I agree thoroughly with your last two sentences, but am somewhat divided about the first. Yes, the book is frightening. But the scenes with Mrs. Oliver are like a breath of fresh air before the atmosphere stifles the reader. Perhaps later on, once the scene is done and you've dived into the eerie again, it is more frightening because of the contrast between it and the recent scene.

Puffinjill 19 Nov 09 at 6:29 p.m. GMT

Yes, the scenes with Ariadne Oliver lighten the mood slightly but also serve to make the supernatural feel of the book even more frightening. Thats why I love this book - it's constuction is brilliant. It makes the impossible seem frighteningly possible.

go_leafs_nation 19 Nov 09 at 1:06 p.m. GMT

Like I said, Mrs. Oliver appears in segments that read almost as interludes in the supernatural action. These are very fun to read, as Mrs. Oliver's scatterbrained mind runs around in a maze that makes perfect sense to her. It all hinges on the white cockatoo, of course!

Yes, tying Marple and Poirot together without having them actually meet was extremely clever of Agatha Christie. This way, we realize the two inhabit the same world, but we don't have to sit through a battle of wits between the two in which one of them will be made to look like a complete dunderhead.

The basic plot set-up of The Pale Horse (ie the 'supernatural' murder story) is very hard to make unsuccessfull. Some of my favourite mysteries ever follow this plotline: The Hound of the Baskervilles, The Three Coffins, The Sittaford Mystery, The Pale Horse, The House at Satan's Elbow, The Burning Court, etc.

Puffinjill 17 Nov 09 at 8:25 a.m. GMT

As to the point about Mark and Mrs Oliver working as a team, I don't see it that way. Mrs Oliver isn't actively involved in trying to solve the mystery at all. In fact, she isn't even aware of what is going on. Yes, she gives Mark the significant link that helps him put everything together but she does that without realising it it the key that will unlock the problem.

It's great to have her in the book, along with Rhoda Dawes/Despard and the Dane Cathrops. Having the Vicar and his good lady in this book with Mrs O brings the two worlds of Marple and Poirot to a point where they finally touch. A nice touch from AC for all those who love her work.

Puffinjill 16 Nov 09 at 7:10 p.m. GMT

I'm in agreement with you ther, go leafs! This has been a favourite of mine for a long time although I was wary of reading it at first. But I was completely ensnared by the way AC weaved her story and the atmosphere she created. And it loses none of it's impact after years of rereading and listening to the audiobook. It's well plotted, is narrated well and mixes the everyday/commonplace with the supernatural to such an effect that it all seens beleivably terrifying.

Biased, go leafs? Why not! I am! And why? Because it's a GOOD book which lingers with you even after you finish it. It also has (possibly) the best line in an AC novel (in my humble opinion) but since it gives away the plot a bit, I won't repeat it!

go_leafs_nation 16 Nov 09 at 12:55 p.m. GMT

Ariadne Oliver makes for fun interludes in an extremely creepy, amazingly written book. The Pale Horse is my favourite of the non-series books (yes, beating even the perpetually-praised And Then There Were None). Agatha Christie writes so well, making the story increasingly more and more terrifying. The supernatural explanation seems to be the only one, the reader begins to feel. And then, with a crash, the entire scheme collapses, it is revealed for what it is; the reader can go out into the normal world, relieved; the supernatural horrors have been shut back into their box.

Then again, perhaps I'm biased, since mysteries that follow more or less such a pattern are my favourites? No matter; The Pale Horse is among the best detective novels of the 60s.