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Non-Series Novels & Stories

For those of you wanting to discuss Agatha Christie's standalone books, such as And Then There Were None. 

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The Seven Dials Mystery

Jemma 05 Sep 09 at 11:55 a.m. GMT

A light-hearted thriller, The Seven Dials Mystery, is in some ways a sequel to The Secret of Chimneys. Though there is no connection between the plots, the reuse of characters allows for a familiarity for the reader. In what way do the novels compare and, given the choice, which would you rather read?

Christie sets this novel against the backdrop of the roaring twenties. The light comedy that was present in The Secret of Chimneys is also employed and comparisons can be made with the writer PG Wodehouse. Indeed would Bertie Wooster have been out of place here? The novel can be seen as a reflection of changing attitudes. Nightclubs, fast cars and the "nouveau riche" all suggest a changing world.

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36 replies

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HeiseiHolmes 20 Apr 10 at 11:17 a.m. GMT

Well, I finished it on holiday, and it really surprised me. At first, it seems nothing like a usual Agatha Christie book, but at the end I'm forced to change my mind. The humour employed here is totally enjoyable, and stops the book's tone from becoming dark and overly melodramatic. I think it seems like a parody of spy books which were once popular, pointing out all their cheesiest parts...

Yunakitty 07 Aug 10 at 1:59 a.m. GMT

I really loved Bundle in this.  She was clever and resourceful, like Tuppence or Frankie from "Evans."  And the twist of who's good and who's bad was really surprising.

Pongo 24 Aug 10 at 1:40 a.m. GMT

I understand why "The Seven Dials Mystery" does not get the attention that, say, "Murder on the Orient Express" or "The Body in the Library" receive.  First, there is no Poirot or Marple or Tommy & Tuppence.  Second, "The Seven Dials Mystery" is an early Christie work (first published in 1929), and, generally speaking, the earlier works tend to be overshadowed by her 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s works.  Third, as is usually the case with early Christie (such as, for example, "Murder on the Links"), "The Seven Dials Mystery" suffers from a complicated plot with too many characters. 

In spite of thinking that it is far from a perfect book, and while I think it has its fair share of plot holes, the book is certainly in my Top 10 Christie (and perhaps even in the Top 5). 

While we do not have a Poirot or Miss Marple, we are given Superintendant Battle and Bundle.  Superintendant Battle stays in the background, like a trusty anchor keeping the story from going astray, and Bundle is so likeable that you end up rooting for her, even if she doesn't always get things right.  Bundle Brent would have gone far in her own set of stories had Dame Agatha given her the opportunity, in the mold of, say, the T&T stories.  Other characters, too, are thoroughly likeable, such as Jimmy, Loraine, and Bill. 

As for the plot, I admit that the details can overwhelm upon first reading.  However, the plot provides some really intriguing ideas.  For example, the whole premise of the "alarum" clock scenario hooks you in immediately.  It's almost as if Dame Agatha is enticing you with some light-hearted comedy with young, care-free characters, and, all of a sudden, she hits you over the head with a sledgehammer by introducing, at lightening speed, death and spies and secret societies. 

Pongo 24 Aug 10 at 1:41 a.m. GMT

Also, this book provides some of the most surprising twists that Agatha Christie has ever constructed.  (SPOILERS AHEAD>>>>>>)

##SPOILERS##

For example, I love the twist that it is the secret society that are the "good guys", which goes against the stereotypical notion of the "evil" secret society.  Moreover, at the head of this society is Number 7 himself, Battle, and we discover that practically everyone is not who he or she seems (Bill, Gerry, Ronnie, Battle).  Even Bundle is not who we the reader believe her to be in that we rely on her to be our "sleuth" when it is, in fact, Battle who essentially solves the mystery. 

Another example is, of course, the revelation that the culprits are Jimmy and Loraine.  I admit to being utterly shocked when I first read this because I trusted Jimmy as a character (though I think that the confusing nature of the plot helped to cloak Jimmy and Loraine until the very end; after all, for example, if you really think about it, it is very suspicious that Loraine would be at Wyvern Abbey at 2 a.m., just happening to be at the very spot where the formula is dropped, etc.). 

Then, there is the clue, provided by Ronnie Devereaux to Bundle Brent before his death, which has to be up there in the list of most ingenious clues in Agatha Christie (along with, for example, the letter "H" and shephards and shephardesses).  The nature of the clue changes depending on your perspective. 

###SPOILERS END####

Pongo 24 Aug 10 at 2:01 a.m. GMT

One last comment (sorry to keep going on and on about this book!!)...

The LWT TV movie adaptation from the early 80s is stellar and highly recommended.  In my opinion, it is truly one of the great Agatha Christie adaptations that, not only stays true to the novel, but also is not afraid to remain true to the novel.  There is even the character of Vera "Socks" Daventry who is memorable because of her overuse of the word "subtle"!! Every gosh darn line she has uses the word "subtle"!!!!  (I think that the TV film and the novel differ in that, in the film, Vera is made into the goddaughter of the Cootes, though please correct me if I am wrong on this.)

The cast is brilliant, and absolutely dead-on perfect.  The actors who spring to mind immediately are Cheryl Campbell, Harry Andrews, John Gielgud, Terence Alexander (who is delightful as George Lomax), and Christopher Scoular (Bill). 

Then, there is the great James Warwick.  James Warwick is truly one of the unsung heroes of Agatha Christie adaptations.  He really should be up there along with Joan Hickson and David Suchet as an actor who gave Christie adaptations a great on-screen and stage presence.  He played Jimmy Thesiger in "The Seven Dials Mystery", Tommy Beresford in "The Secret Adversary" and in the Partners in Crime television series, Bobby Jones in "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?".  I also saw him in the play "And Then There Were None" in the West End many many years ago, where he played Philip Lombard (I recall that I loved the way he delivered the line (and I paraphrase) "Thank heaven women can't shoot straight!").  Such a wonderful actor. 

Tommy_A_Jones 24 Aug 10 at 3:30 p.m. GMT

Don't ever apologise for going on about this book your post has made me think of it in a brand new light, I thought it was not as good as The Secret of Chimneys but now realise that isn't the case, it hadn't really occurred to me that AC had turned the idea of a secret Society on its head, I admit I don't remember everything about the book but the only changes I remember are minor ones and to do with what the Characters look like for instance Jimmy Thesinger is a fasir-haired man in the book but in the Excellent Adaptation he has Blackk Hair, and the part played by Rula Lenska should actually be played by a Black-haired Actress and I might be wrong but didn't Jimmy escape in the book?

As you say Pongo The Cast are brilliant, It is such a shame Battle has never been portrayed since, I only hope the new version is't too bad but if it is wealways have the book to make up for it.

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 2:18 a.m. GMT

Tommy A Jones, thank you for your enthusiastic reply!!  I agree with you that it is a real shame that there has been no proper TV portrayal of Battle.  Harry Andrews was really perfect as Battle, like a retired military captain who had become superintendant, and giving Battle a slight Cockney accent to provide him with some semblance of working-class roots, making for a wonderful contrast with the upper-class Bundle, Jimmy, etc.  He also had a twinkle in his eye: recall the marvelous scene where Battle tells Bundle to return to her room by climbing back up the ivy wall.  Finally and most importantly, Harry Andrews was able to portray that sense that Battle, on the outside, looks dim, but is in fact brilliant in his deductive thinking. 

For a number of reasons, I loathe the new Marple films and avoid watching them altogether, so, I do not know whether or not Battle appears in the Marple versions of Chimneys or Towards Zero or Murder is Easy. 

However, I do like the David Suchet Poirot series, even the most recent entries (such as Hallowe’en Party, The Clocks, and even the dark and religious-themed Murder on the Orient Express).  I thought the TV film Cards on the Table was good, despite making some very drastic plot changes.  However, I was saddened that Battle was replaced by a new character (the dreadful creation that was Superintendant Wheeler). 

Poirot and Battle together on screen would have made for some brilliant television, and it would have been wonderful to have seen their differing personalities, the mutual respect for one another, the way they have different methods to achieve the same goal, etc.  I can imagine an actor like Jim Broadbent playing Battle were there to be a new on-screen incarnation of the character.

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 2:39 a.m. GMT

SPOILERS!!!

Tommy, to answer your question, though we are never shown Jimmy's arrest, Battle explains to Bundle that he has indeed been arrested.  At the end of one of the last chapters (entitled “Bundle is Dumbfounded”), Battle says Jimmy Thesiger “was arrested this afternoon."  So, this is unlike the TV film, in which Jimmy's arrest occurs on-screen.

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 2:41 a.m. GMT

There is another difference that may be worth mentioning. 

**SPOILERS**

About two-thirds into the novel, in a chapter entitled “Jimmy Lays His Plans”, there is a brilliant scene where Jimmy and Loraine are alone, walking the grounds of Wyvern Abbey the day after the events of the attempted robbery of the Eberhard formula.  Except for those astute readers out there, we do not know at this point that Jimmy and Loraine are the baddies, but this is the first time that we get a scene with just the two of them.  Their conversation is so well written in that it does not give away the fact that these two are the baddies, and yet, when you re-read this scene with the knowledge that they are the culprits, the conversation makes total sense.  It is a true “Roger Ackroyd” moment in the sense that we are provided with the “inner thoughts” (so to speak) of the villains but do not necessarily realize that these “inner thoughts” are indeed those of the villains.  This displays Dame Agatha’s consummate skill and care regarding misdirection. 

(TO BE CONTINUED IN A SUBSEQUENT POST)

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 2:42 a.m. GMT

**SPOILERS**

(CONTINUED FROM A PREVIOUS POST)

While there is no corresponding scene in the TV film, there is a brief scene that takes place earlier in the narrative, between Loraine and Jimmy, where they are alone in his flat.  Jimmy is playing the piano, drinking champagne and something like “Confusion to our enemies”, while Loraine gives him a slightly seductive look.  And this is all while Bundle is at the Seven Dials Club, being assisted by Alfred to hide in the cupboard.  Though there is no dialogue in the Jimmy-Loraine scene that would necessarily “give it all away”, the tone of the scene and the line “confusion to our enemies” seems slightly out of place, and makes sense only when one realizes the true nature of these characters.

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 2:50 a.m. GMT

Tommy, I would love to hear your thoughts on the comparison between The Secret of Chimneys and The Seven Dials Mystery.  For instance, do you think that Seven Dials is a true "sequel" to Chimneys? 

Tommy_A_Jones 25 Aug 10 at 4:40 p.m. GMT

Well Pongo, I do think The Seven Dials Mystery is a sequal to The Secret of Chimneys even though the Hero of The Secret of Chimneys isn't in The Seven Dials Mystery (For very Good Reasons) I thought The Secret Of Chimneys was a slightly better book, I think one reason might be I had already knew who the Murderer was as I have the Video but also because SPOILER I thought (Probably wrongly) that this book was slightly unfair as a Character I assumed was a sleuth was in fact a Killer and I hate that I just can't abide it when books in my Opinion are unfaiur to the reader (A Hang-Up of mine).

I am surprised you like the Adaptation of Cards On The Table I hated it, I was so hoping to see someone else play Battle (Jim Broadbent, Jim Carter or Clive Mantel would have been Excellent) and although the Acter they chose to play Wheeler is a Good Actor the way he was portrayed and alot of the rest of the Adaptation was in my view a total insult to Agatha Christie and certainly didn't do the book which is one of my favourites Justice.

Although I have Criticised the Marple series in the past some are IMHO alot better than others and the way Miss Marple has been portrayed is much better since Julia McKenzie took over although I do like a small number of the Adaptations Geraldine McKewan appeared in.

I wish |I could remember whole bits of books and Titles of Chapters, I have difficulty remembering Character's names sometimes. 

Pongo 26 Aug 10 at 10:52 a.m. GMT

Tommy, what a great post!  There is a lot going on there....

Responding to your comment about The Seven Dials Mystery and how you felt that the inclusion of a certain plot point about the identity of the killer was unfair to the reader, that is very interesting.  After all, you are obviously a Christie fan, and Dame Agatha has, on many occasions, used similar plot devices in other stories, some of which are very famous and highly regarded.  So, do you also feel the same way about those "other" Christie novels/stories?  (Am very interested to read your response to this.)

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Aug 10 at 4:08 p.m. GMT

Off the top of my head I can't think of a single instance where I have liked it when someone I thought wwas a sleuth turned out to be the culprit apart from The Seven Dials Mystery  where although I was cross, as I told you I found out as I watched the video many times before reading the book so I had cooled down considerably by the time I was lucky enough to read the book which is still one I like alot due to the atmosphere and the wonderful Characters from an era the likes of which we sadly will never see again.

I don't liker it when people I assume are sleuths are murderers because I think this isn't clever mis-direction as some might think but I think it is an easy option, a Get-out of Jail Card if you like.

I also don't like it when the Host of the House is the Murderer for the same reason, I have found the only time I have been able to excuse this is with SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER A Book with a dfifferent sleuth because I love that book so much and if I sat quietly and hadn't read the denoumont I would have worked it out and realised that was the only logical sdolution.

Sorry, I was going to name the book but then realised you might not have read it and wouldn't want to spoil it for you.

I also don't like it when Spouses are Murderers as I consider that unfair and an easy option too. I have never found a Novel where I have forgiven this.

All thise bug bare's of mine don't apply with short stories as they are different, Agatha had to pack alot in a short space of time and I find MOST of her short stories so entertaining I will forgive them, also short stories are different in another way;

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

In ACs Novels the Villains are from the Upper and Middle Classes but with shoret stories the Villains are sometimees working Class. 

Pongo 27 Aug 10 at 5:31 a.m. GMT

Tommy, again, nice post.... First of all, thank you very much for your consideration regarding spoiling a certain novel you referenced.  I think I know which one you are talking about, by the way. 

I respect your views on what might be perceived as an overuse of a certain type of plot device in detective fiction for the sake of trying to create a "surprise ending".  But, let me say that, for me, Christie's works can, genenerally speaking, be divided into two broad classes.  The first of which is the Clue-Based Mystery, wherein the primary focus is the apprehension of the murderer based on the clues that punctuate a narrative.  In other words, the sleuth says "I know X is the murderer because of clue #1, #2, and #3". 

The second class is the Psychologically Based Mystery, wherein the primary focus is the how the psychological profile of the murderer matches the crime, in which case, it is the sleuth's job to ascertain exactly what the psychological profile of the criminal in question is.  In other words, "I know X is the murderer because X's psychology fits the profile of the murderer of this kind of crime." 

(Of course, there are novels that can be regarded as being a mixture of the two). 

So, it seems to me that, in the Clue-Based Mystery, there is more potential for the murderer to be arbitrarily chosen by the author for the sake of surprise.  The "sleuth did it" or "the house host did it" stories are, to my mind, Clue-Based Mysteries, where the murderer has been selected for the sake of surprise rather than for the sake of satisfying some inherent psychological need in that character.  Thus, there is something to be said for the fact that these kinds of mysteries can be less than satisfying. 

Pongo 27 Aug 10 at 5:52 a.m. GMT

Cont.  ***SPOILERS AHEAD****

However, personally I find that the point of such a surprise ending is not really to surprise as much as it is to explore the Christie theme of things are not as they appear on the surface.  Thus, I don't mind the "the sleuth did it" card.  Such a plot twist really operates well in the Christie universe in that one of the most prominent themes in Christie is that things and people are not what they appear to be on the surface.  As a reader, we are always reminded that people are not always who they say they are, and that is true for sleuths as much as anyone else. 

I would put Seven Dials Mystery into the category of Clue-Based, and, for reasons that I stated in a previous post, I think this novel is very surprising.  More fundamentally, I don't think it is that the novel works in spite of the "sleuth did it" card.  I think it is that the novel works because of (among other things) the "sleuth did it" card.  It operates well with the theme of people are not who they seem (which is certainly true of Battle, the secret society members, Gerry, Ronnie, Loraine, Bill, and even Bundle). 

Anyway, I look forward to any comments you may have.  Also, I am intrigued by your assessment of classes and the short stories.  I never thought about it that way before.  I welcome any further comments you may have here. 

Also, I have posted in the Cards on the Table discussion a reply to your comment here regarding my thoughts on that novel's David Suchet adaptation.  I gather that I am in the minority when I say I think it is "good" (not very good, just good).  Anyway, if you get a chance, please take a look.  I would love to hear your further thoughts. 

Tommy_A_Jones 27 Aug 10 at 4:04 p.m. GMT

Thankyou for your post, I am really enjoying this discussion even iof I think I might be out of my depth slightly If I am I apologise, I like both classes work and both classews produce good books even though I can't at the moment think of one from your  #1 Class, I don't think |I am that good at identifying a Clue. but can think of afew where the Murderer has to be him or her because of the Psychology of it all

I will definitely look at your Post on the Cards On The Table Thread I loved the book and have read it about 3 times which maybe is why I was so sad about the Adaptation which Ironically was on ITV3 the other night.

Pongo 27 Aug 10 at 4:38 p.m. GMT

Tommy, thank you.  I am enjoying it too.  Your comments really got me thinking about Christie in a way I haven't previously considered.  No need to apologize!!  On the contrary, you are teaching me a lot.  For example, I have been seriously thinking about your take on short stories.  I am new to this site, but I have been reading through some of your past posts, and they have been excellent.  

Your comment "I was so sad about the [Cards on the Table] Adaptation" is really touching!  It just shows how much you love the original novel!!!  Anyway, I admire your opinion, so please take a look at what I wrote in the COTT discussion; please disagree with me if you like!  

Speaking of adaptations, I hope they never adapt The Seven Dials Mystery by adding Miss Marple, and with a character named Superintendent Davis replacing Superintendent Battle, and with nuns, and changing it so that Jimmy loves Bill instead of Loraine.  I would literally EXPLODE WITH ANGER if that happened 

Pongo 27 Aug 10 at 4:38 p.m. GMT

Tommy, thank you.  I am enjoying it too.  Your comments really got me thinking about Christie in a way I haven't previously considered.  No need to apologize!!  On the contrary, you are teaching me a lot.  For example, I have been seriously thinking about your take on short stories.  I am new to this site, but I have been reading through some of your past posts, and they have been excellent.  

Your comment "I was so sad about the [Cards on the Table] Adaptation" is really touching!  It just shows how much you love the original novel!!!  Anyway, I admire your opinion, so please take a look at what I wrote in the COTT discussion; please disagree with me if you like!  

Speaking of adaptations, I hope they never adapt The Seven Dials Mystery by adding Miss Marple, and with a character named Superintendent Davis replacing Superintendent Battle, and with nuns, and changing it so that Jimmy loves Bill instead of Loraine.  I would literally EXPLODE WITH ANGER if that happened 

Tommy_A_Jones 27 Aug 10 at 4:49 p.m. GMT

I have read your post on the Cards On The Table Thread, I will be interested to hear your views.

I too would be angry if they did an Adaptation of The Seven Dials Mystery with Miss Marple, I can see how they could ruin it like they did Towards Zero taking out my 2 favourite Characters Battle and the Scotsman but I can see how they would make Bill Devastated when seeing his love Jimmy Carted off to Jail, lets not give ITV Ideas.