Book Club

Poirot Stories

Poirot is Agatha Christie's most famous and popular detective.  No doubt he would agree that he deserves that accolade!

Here is the place to discuss all of his stories in detail with other fans.  The most insightful comments will be added to the Stories pages.  But remember to beware spoilers!

If you can't find your favourite Poirot story here, don't worry - we'll be adding them all soon.

Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

Death in the Clouds

Moderator1 05 Nov 09 at 10:07 a.m. GMT

Hercule Poirot is not a lover of air travel and he little expects a dead passenger to be in the seat behind him at the end of the flight from Le Bourget to Croydon.  At first it seems that Madame Giselle has been stung by a wasp but when a poisoned dart, shot from a blowpipe, is discovered beside the dead body Poirot realises he has to a murder to solve - and a limited number of suspects to choose from.

Is this story as relevant today - do people still not pay attention to those around them just doing their jobs?  Was there potential for Jane Grey to appear in future Christie stories?  Or perhaps she did, just in different guises...

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44 replies

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Vogue 03 Aug 11 at 9:44 a.m. GMT

I've just read this novel and it has seemed me a great one! I found wonderful the way Agatha hides the mystery until the end and I also loved the weird - but at the same time smart - methods that the detective Hercule Poirot uses to uncover the real assassin. I just want to encourage anyone who will read this post to read the novel becuase it inculdes some funny Poirot's phrases that make the book more entertaining.

MsBuckley 24 Jul 11 at 2:48 p.m. GMT

Great book, I was entertained the entire plot! All the details that appear in the story appear later,but still, never even crossed my mind that Gale was involved with the crimes, the film with David Suchet is also great, especially the part when Poirot says "You left your fingerprints on the bottle" and then Gale says "But this is absolutely impossible, because ... " and Poirot continues, "You wore gloves ... Indeed .... Thank you"

 5 STARS BOOK and book!

ErkutSoyer 15 Jul 11 at 8:23 a.m. GMT

I love France environment in book.Also I love night adventures in London.I didn't estimate the murderer again but I estimated murder method.Read this book in summer

Hercuel_Poirot_7 29 Jun 11 at 6:15 p.m. GMT

Definetily people are closing to them selves in our days and dont pay attention to anybody around.

poirotfan29 23 Jun 11 at 10:58 p.m. GMT

this story is interesting it is one of my favorite stories

Epsilon14 02 Jun 11 at 4:29 p.m. GMT

I just finished the book and man was I surprised till the very end. A very interesting book. I never would have thought Gale released the wasp. Christie amazed me in this book and will go on amazing me. 

Cicely 03 May 11 at 8:48 p.m. GMT

I thought these comments were supposed to be about the book, not the movie.  Several of you are commenting on the movie version.  I LOVE the movies, because I am a more visual person, but the book is the TRUE Agatha Christie story.  The movies take liberties ad nauseum and sometimes make a huge difference in the story AC created.  We have to remember that.  I wonder how AC would react to all the changes the movie versions make.  Just think of the time she spent working out every aspect of the crime.  I agree with the person who said AC stories are not supposed to be about making a social statement (or something to that effect), they are just entertaining who-done-its.  I believe that is why AC stories have always been so wildly popular over the years.  It is a recent phenomenon to have TV shows, movies and books to take a social position and be PC.  One of the reasons I love AC so much, especially Poirot, is that they are just endearing mysteries to be enjoyed for their own sake!  Death in the Clouds is one of the best, in my view.  I hope Jane Grey eventually found love with the young Frenchman, I forget his name, who was on the plane with his father - the archeologists.  That line was not covered by the movie and seems such a romantic part of the book, eve though AC did not favor romances in her stories.

Dulcie 07 Jan 11 at 8:25 a.m. GMT

About the wasp...

If the wasp was from Mr.Gale, then why does Poirot say at the end that 'our attention was drawn to it by the murderer'? Mr. Dupont was the one who went on about the wasp, he killed it with his cup, and when they saw Mdm. Giselle dead, he wanted desperately to make it seem like a wasp sting killed her.

About the 2 spoons.

This seems like quite an important part in the story. When Norman Gale pretended to be a steward, he carried a spoon to Mdm. Giselle so that it would be more convincing. But did he not notice the other spoon?

Prnbs 11 Nov 10 at 4:57 a.m. GMT

But it is mentioned that the murderer intended to pick up the dart. When he failed, he introduced the blowpipe so as to create the illusion of distance.

And it is also mentioned that the poison used was so rare as to be untraceable had the dart not been discovered.

GKCfan 11 Nov 10 at 4:31 a.m. GMT

Plan A was that the death would be attributed to a wasp sting (hence the released wasp).  Then no murder would have been suspected (and the dart would porobably have been ignored), but it was very likely that an autopsy would have proved murder by poison, so the dart was dropped in order to create the illusion that a blowipe sent the dart into the victim's neck.  If the dart was taken away, investigators would have suspected hand delivery of the dart earlier, and anyone who got up would have been suspected.  Bottom line, with no dart, ther'd have been no way the blowpipe could have been used.

Prnbs 11 Nov 10 at 4:05 a.m. GMT

Possible loophole? (Spoiler ahead)

Hi

I am a great admirer of Christie's style and I want to set my mind at rest about what seems to me a big loophole in this story.

Since the victim was pricked with the dart by hand, why or how did the dart fall to the floor? The entire story rests on the fact that the dart fell to the floor, the murderer was unable to retrieve it and hence the cover up of the wasp failed.

GKCfan 14 Sep 10 at 6:51 a.m. GMT

Cocaine is central to the plot of the original novel in Peril at End House.  There are two reasons for Poirot having Norman wear a disguise.  First, he wants to get Lady Horbury shaken up so she'll confide in him, and possibly become open to a divorce from her husband so he can marry his true love.  Second, he wants to see how well Norman handles a disguise and deception, since Poirot already suspects him.  And it's implied that Monsieur Dupont (the son) and Jane Grey will eventually get married, but it will take some time, since Jane has to get over Gale.

Cicely 14 Sep 10 at 1:11 a.m. GMT

There is also cocaine use in the adaptation of Peril at End House where Mrs. Rice uses it in a scene and three of them conceal it in certain areas that I won't name (no spoilers!).  I have been meaning to re-read the book and see if that is in the original.  I hate it when they add something like that to the movie versions.   I never understand the reason Poirot has Norman Gale wear the disguise and pretend to be a reporter to Lady Horbury.  Can anyone explain that to me?  Also, in the end of the book, I believe Monsieur Dupont and Jane Gray get together, am I correct?  I thought that would have been a nice ending to the movie since Gale was such a scoundrel.

Miss_Eylesbarrow 21 Jul 10 at 9:25 a.m. GMT

Thanks GKC, I saw your comments on the site just after I had posted my question, but then I had another look in the book, and I'm sure it's a term for make-up rather than the biscuit. 

The 'flapjack' is only found in the luggage of the three ladies - as you say Miss Quin, and the actual sentence is written like this: (Capital letter, starts sentence) Lipstick (comma), rouge (comma), flapjack (full stop). Could it be a cake-mascara type thing or face powder/foundation like Puffinjill suggests - Pancake?  I think we might have solved this one between us all, don't you?   Thanks everyone!

MissQuin 20 Jul 10 at 3:03 p.m. GMT

Suprised Lady H, Jane and Ventia would all eat flapjacks. I don't think we can rule out that it might be a old slang make up term.

GKCfan 20 Jul 10 at 12:18 a.m. GMT

We discussed this about a year and a half ago.  I posted my thoughts on this thread: 

http://www.agathachristie.com/forum/have-your-say/new-christie-website/glossary-section-on-website/paginationoff/

MissQuin 19 Jul 10 at 4:47 p.m. GMT

Ive been puzzled over this for years! It's in the luggage of Miss Kerr, Miss Grey, and Lady Horbry. But none of the men have any flapjacks! So maybe it is make up. One of had a toothpick, wihich would be handy if they had an oat flap jack.

Miss_Eylesbarrow 19 Jul 10 at 3:51 p.m. GMT

It's definately in at least one of the female passengers' luggage, but also appears elsewhere, I can't remember who though.  Perhaps I should have got more info before I started this one!  I'll have a look tonight and come back to you on it...

Puffinjill 19 Jul 10 at 3:34 p.m. GMT

Is it another word for foundation make up? I've certainly heard of foundation being called Pancake so I'm guessing (possibly wrongly!!) that Flapjack is the same. The trouble is, off the top of my head, I can't remember in who's luggage it was discovered and if it was one of the male characters it might open up a whole new side to their nature!!!!

Miss_Eylesbarrow 19 Jul 10 at 10:22 a.m. GMT

Okay, does anyone know what a 'flapjack' in the passengers' luggage is?  I'm guessing that AC wasn't saying that some passengers had half-eaten oaty biscuits hanging around.

Agathasmykid 21 Jun 10 at 6:18 p.m. GMT

My review, ****contains spoilers.*****

Hi, just finished 'Death in the Clouds,' I liked this story.  Agatha, as usual, does a great job at building suspense, and moving the story along at a brisk pace. A few moments of comedy, such as Poirot being considered a suspect, and Japp's jokes about it being an example.  Also, somewhat similar to 'Murder in Three Acts,' a young girl starts falling for an established man, who turns out to be the murderer.  Interesting that this would occur two books in a row.  This combined with the fact that there were two archeologists, and a mystery writer on board makes me think this book reflects on people in Agatha's life.

This was another book where I felt by the second half I was able to guess the murderer.   From the murder's comedic disguise when he attempts Poirot's blackmail scheme, to dissappearing from the story all together when the focus turns on Jane and her role in helping Poirot, I felt the murderer was rather obvious.  There are more examples as well. 

Also, I am not sure how I feel about how the murder was committed.  Is it plausible?  Maybe, maybe not.  I am still undecided.

I wondered too how this story would have worked if the whole story took place on the plane itself.  I am not sure if planes at that time had enough fuel to stay up in the air for a longer period of time.  However lets say the plane was restricted from landing for some reason, and Poirot managed to solve it on board, would this have made the story better or not?

Grade: B

MissQuin 13 May 10 at 5:15 p.m. GMT

Remeber spoiler warnings!

Mimiumidon 08 May 10 at 2:36 a.m. GMT

OMG I'm so proud because I was able to spot the murderer! When I saw that Norman Gale had an emply box of matches, I immediatly knew it was him!

aquaflute 31 Jan 10 at 10:40 p.m. GMT

It was after I read this book that I realised how very often that AC made the murderer "a seemingly jerk with a heart of gold turns out to be just a jerk" (as another member in the forum put so very concisely in another discussion). This principle helped me figuring out a few murderers later when I am reading her other works. I semi-hated AC for writing charming murderers that I fell in love with each time! Now I realised that every time you really liked any character in a crime novel, BEWARE!!!

HeiseiHolmes 25 Jan 10 at 5:14 p.m. GMT

I loved this book. It reminds me of an episode of Detective Conan what with the plane murder and all, but I think I'll be scared to fly anywhere now.

GKCfan 24 Jan 10 at 11:54 p.m. GMT

One problem I had with the adaptation was Poirot's closing words to Jane, telling her that the killer "loved her."  I much preferred the book, where she's quasi-angry with Poirot for breaking up her romance, and he tells her that the killer probably would've murdered her sooner or later.

go_leafs_nation 24 Jan 10 at 6:19 p.m. GMT

It became illegal only fairly recently. This takes place in the early 30s.

MissQuin 24 Jan 10 at 11:56 a.m. GMT

Ive puzzled over a small matter in Death in the clouds. Lady Cecily Horbury was carrying a small bottle marked "boracic powder" which Japp easily worked out was really cocaine! Wasn't it illegal? Only Lady Horbury wasn't charged with having it, which seemed odd to me.

Puffinjill 14 Jan 10 at 6:36 a.m. GMT

I think we care less about the social nicities that previous generations followed and. In general, there is less thought to how most people behave in public and, therefore, I'm not sure we think a great deal about those around us. Life is lived at a fast pace these days, with numerous distractions (such as the things you name MissQuin) and these take more of our attention than our fellow human beings.

Having said that, because most people don't think about the 'correct' way to do things or behave, I think any attempt carry out a similar murder WOULD be spotted, for two reasons:-

1) Good social manners would have dictated that you did not stare at your fellow passengers, or idly gaze around at what everyone else is doing. You would keep yourself to yourself and be polite if the situation required any interaction, and,

2) ANY passenger behaving suspiciously in ANY way would IMMEDIATELY be wrestled to the floor by fellow travellers in this post 9/11 world.

MissQuin 13 Jan 10 at 4:57 p.m. GMT

I agree with Tommy, nowdays most people are too busy looking at their mobile phones, laptops, MP3 players or Ipods to notice their surroundings.

Tommy_A_Jones 13 Jan 10 at 4:24 p.m. GMT

On reflection peoplem aren't more aware these days and are too interested in ourselves than noticing things around us but I do think people would notice in such circumstances as discribed in the Wonderful Death In The Clouds.

Attica76 13 Jan 10 at 4:17 p.m. GMT

I liked the way the murderer was a kind of "quasi-Hastings", the man Poirot "enlisted" to help him in solving the mystery. I didn't even  suspect the man because of this.

Rubyy321 10 Jan 10 at 9:30 p.m. GMT

Tommy_A_Jones

I loved this book, It was the first one I tried to solve and the Passenger plan nat the front helped me to an extent and trying to solve it gave it thatr extra something, I love locked room mysateries and the books that add Travel which is why it means more to me than other books.

I don't think it is relevent today, I think people are more noticing of their surroundings but in a way I love thisd book so much I don't care and anyway if this book isn't relevent at least one other book I have read isn't relevent for the same reason and I plan on reading both again and I think it is a shame if people are put of a book because it isn't 'relevent' let people who want relevent book go elsewhere although there is plenty of relevence in in Christies work and some I have found have Educated me by telling me things I might not have found out otherwise and finding out those things have encouraged me to find out other things which are related to it.

I admit the details of the book are in places sketchy so I don't remember Jane Grey but from what others have written elsewhere and from seeing the Suchet Adapt, I think she should have been in mkore books but maybe like others she was a prototype for other Characters. 

I agree with these comments but @ Tommy A Jones - do you really think that these days people are more aware of their surroundings? i dont belive so, i think they are more aware or certain things around them but not more aware in general, let me know what you think. I also love a "locked room mystery!" :)

ms_quinn 27 Dec 09 at 7:44 p.m. GMT

i enjoyed the book...by the time i read this one I was addicted to the poirot series and consuming each book with hnugry need.LOLI reckon this was one of the most interestng books by Agatha Christie. The plot was good and I enjoyed the scenario and the clues and tidbits used eg the blowpipe,the dead wasp, etc

kudos to Miss Christie for writing another fab. book!!!!

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Dec 09 at 1:57 p.m. GMT

I have both versions of Evil Under The Sun and bought all the books when they werew Advertized on ITV afew years ago, I also have Murder On The Orient Express, Death On The Nile, all the JH MM series, Seven Dials and the Original Why Didn't They Ask Evans  and The Secret Adversary. and many Audio Cassettes on Tape and CDs. 

sjoerdbol 26 Dec 09 at 1:27 p.m. GMT

I saw Evil Under The Sun a few days ago, it was a good movie. I liked the fact that they changed the daughter of Kenneth Marshall into a son. It seemed better. Very funny secenes in the restaurant of Hastings at the beginning.

But you do have all the books?

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Dec 09 at 1:16 p.m. GMT

Lucky you, I only have ABC Murders and Evil Under The Sun on Video and 2 short stories (I can't remember the names of them and it is too much hassle to get to them now.

sjoerdbol 26 Dec 09 at 1:09 p.m. GMT

oh but I do enjoy them. I have season 1till 8 on dvd and I watch them a lot, but sometimes you think that they could have done some things different better. And sometimes they change the book totally, but I do enjoy them, because it still ar Agatha Christie's great plots.

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Dec 09 at 1:01 p.m. GMT

As I have said before, I think sometimes you aren't supposed to question things just enjoy them, btw sloerdbl you should have put as spoiuler warning. 

sjoerdbol 26 Dec 09 at 12:56 p.m. GMT

Yes, it is a great episode of the serie. But one thing is a bit dissapointing:

if you know who did it because you've read the book you think that its obvious who did it as the police check the luggage of the passengers and you see the dentists white coat.

MissQuin 20 Dec 09 at 2:02 p.m. GMT

Death in the clouds in one of my favourite Poirots. The scene where Poirot tries out using a blowpipe, in front of a plane full of people was very funny. It s not just working out who did the murder,  but how the murder was done without anyone seeing.

Read more about this story: Death in the Clouds

Tommy_A_Jones 06 Nov 09 at 1:05 p.m. GMT

I am pleased we agree Puffin, I think if there is grit in Agatha Christie's work people should be allowed not to read between the lines without fear of ridecule, With Death In The Clouds and  other 'Locked Room' stories it is interesting to see how Agatha Christie Confines herself to making the essential Action happen in one room just like Hitchcock did in one of his films where not only did the characters only use 2 rooms but if I remember rightly there were only 2 or 3 Characters.

I am so glad you like Mr Clancy as he is the one Character I remember most - apart from Poirot that is - perhaps it would have been nice to have more of him but there again having 2 Novellists in Poirot books probably wouldn't have worked  

Puffinjill 06 Nov 09 at 7:52 a.m. GMT

I'm not sure the point about relevence matters. Like Tommy, I feel that those looking for more gritty, socially realistic storys and characters would not be turning to Agatha Christie to fulfil these needs. In reading Christie the audience is aware that the books were written from the 1920's up until the 1970's and were usually written about those higher up the social scale. The point isn't what these books can tell us about the human condition; the point is the plot and how AC constructs this.

We all love a 'locked room' mystery. Having a reduced number of possible suspects gives the reader the hope that they may be able to get to the solution before the detective. I think the book is a lot of fun and AC writes some delightful characters. Little Mr Clancy always make me smile!

As for Jane Grey, I feel she is a little more one-dimentional that some of AC's other central female characters. She lacks colour (I think the surmane of Grey is well suited!) and isn't particularly adventurous. She is caught up in the drama due to the unhappy accident of being on the same plane and not through choice. Ther are many other characters who would be ahead on my list to have seen repeated in other books. But she serves her purpose well in Death in the Clouds.

Tommy_A_Jones 05 Nov 09 at 1:32 p.m. GMT

I loved this book, It was the first one I tried to solve and the Passenger plan nat the front helped me to an extent and trying to solve it gave it thatr extra something, I love locked room mysateries and the books that add Travel which is why it means more to me than other books.

I don't think it is relevent today, I think people are more noticing of their surroundings but in a way I love thisd book so much I don't care and anyway if this book isn't relevent at least one other book I have read isn't relevent for the same reason and I plan on reading both again and I think it is a shame if people are put of a book because it isn't 'relevent' let people who want relevent book go elsewhere although there is plenty of relevence in in Christies work and some I have found have Educated me by telling me things I might not have found out otherwise and finding out those things have encouraged me to find out other things which are related to it.

I admit the details of the book are in places sketchy so I don't remember Jane Grey but from what others have written elsewhere and from seeing the Suchet Adapt, I think she should have been in mkore books but maybe like others she was a prototype for other Characters.