Book Club

Poirot Stories

Poirot is Agatha Christie's most famous and popular detective.  No doubt he would agree that he deserves that accolade!

Here is the place to discuss all of his stories in detail with other fans.  The most insightful comments will be added to the Stories pages.  But remember to beware spoilers!

If you can't find your favourite Poirot story here, don't worry - we'll be adding them all soon.

Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

Elephants Can Remember

Moderator1 09 Nov 09 at 4:17 p.m. GMT

Hercule Poirot is looking into an old accident: Molly and Alistair Ravenscroft were found shot dead and it was thought to be suicide.  Was it just coincidence that Dolly, Molly's mentally ill twin sister was found dead three weeks before the couple died and could family bad blood have been passed down to Celia?  It's important that Desmond's mother finds out before she will allow Desmond and Celia to marry.

Could this have been a case for Parker Pyne involving as it does affairs of the heart?  Christie could have used him and still included Ariadne Oliver as she had helped Parker Pyne in the past.

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Puffinjill 14 Nov 09 at 7:55 a.m. GMT

I've always found this a difficult book to like. It has, on first glance, a lot of reasons to love it - Poirot delving into deaths in the past (done to such great effect elsewhere) with Mrs Oliver on hand to help and/or hinder. But the relationship refuses to spark for me this time. Their long discussions about the case just seem rambling and mostly there for padding. There also seems little mystery as the solution seem glaringly obvious from very early on, even if the reader is unable to tie up all the loose ends until Poirot does. But even the solution seems unsatisfactory as the characters of those involved fail to hold my attention and I find I actually don't care who shot who or why. Bit of a shame, that.

I hadn't thought of what the book would be like without Poirot and using Parker Pyne instead. I fancy it still wouldn't work for me. PP may deal with happiness and affairs of the heart, but he would do so in an efficient manner, with much less muddly discussion and, therefore, the book might might of resembled a pamphlet!! Wish I could love this book but it always leaves me disapointed.

Attica76 17 Jan 10 at 11:49 a.m. GMT

It occurred to me after rereading it recently that one of the main points of the story - whether Celia was likely to inherit "genes of insanity" from her mother - wasn't settled satisfactorily. The name of her aunt's disease is never mentioned, but it's well known that heredity plays an important role in mental diseases. And if there were genes of insanity in the Ravenscroft family in general, Celia could probably inherit them (even if they stayed dormant in her and her mother) and pass them on to her children, even being completely sane herself.

Of course, I'm a layperson but that's the way I see it.

MissQuin 28 Apr 10 at 5:56 p.m. GMT

I'm not a doctor, so I don't know too much, but it seems it would be rarer for one twin to have an inherited mental illness and the other twin not to have it.

Anyway, this book was ok, but again it does lack some spark. Plus it does have some long conversations not needed. The solution was quite simple.

GKCfan 28 Apr 10 at 10:48 p.m. GMT

It's actually very common for one twin to have a mental illness or some other disease, while the other doesn't.  Identical DNA doesn't mean identical brain chemistry.

Lone_Wolf 29 Apr 10 at 5:51 a.m. GMT

"Plus it does have some long conversations not needed. "

Long, rambling conversations that do nothing for the plot or characterization are a problem with later Christies. 

Pat_september 19 Oct 10 at 4:42 p.m. GMT

I must say that I've enjoyed "Elephants Can Remember" quite a bit. It got my attention from the very first page, in which Ariadne is having difficulties choosing which hat to wear  

It's been fun to read, it flowed very well and I did not found the discussions all that long. How else cna one dig into the past? Discussions are necessary, words have power, memories have power. And the plot has been interesting too - like nothing else I read from Christie yet.

I won't criticise this novel as I've really enjoyed it.

Pongo 21 Oct 10 at 2:52 a.m. GMT

SPOILERS BELOW

Pat september, Nice post.  I don't think that AC is totally immune to criticism, and I think that Elephants Can Remember is "minor" Christie because of the relatively predictable nature of the plot as it unfolds.

However, it is great for its mood and its real sense of tragedy.  I especially was taken with your description: "Discussions are necessary, words have power, memories have power."  This is one of the best descriptions of this novel I have come across.  You are absolutely right.  Discussions are necessary, and it is up to Poirot and Oliver to sift through the discussions in order discern the truth.  The mystery is an investigation into the past, so the only remaning clues are words and memories. 

The book feels less about an exploration of psychology (like, say, Five Little Pigs), and more about the evocation of what might be tragic British Romantic or even Gothic literature.  I think especially of the death by the cliff, sleepwalking, the plot device of twins, etc.  In fact, I would even go so far as to say that this might be one of AC's most tragic books. 

sheridasmith 09 Jan 11 at 7:08 a.m. GMT

I agree with Pat September regarding the need for discussions. It helps clear any "muddlesome" points one may have.

When I finished one question haunts me. What happen to Dolly's daughter??

There was no more mention. Does anyone else wonder if Celia is really Dolly's daughter. If so, there is that 50-50 chance of insanity.

butico 08 Aug 11 at 8:50 p.m. GMT

O único da magnífica autora em que consegui desvendar com alguns capítulos de antecedência. Mas não deixa de ser atraente, interessante.

AriadneOliver491 06 Oct 11 at 11:37 p.m. GMT

I am a huge Ariadne Oliver fan as you may have guessed by my username and i find her the most believeable and appealing of all Christie's characters. I am 72 pages into the book and are a bit confused as the author and characters are not very clear on the matter they are investigating.

SeaView 23 Oct 11 at 2:02 p.m. GMT

I enjoyed the theme of "Old Sins Cast Long Shadows". However, the book does ramble. Perhaps this is due to it being Christie's late work, 1972. Her powers might have been slightly failing, hence the title, "Elephants Can Remember"; and last line in the book about people being able to forget. Christie focuses on love between a married couple, the ideal of Molly Ravenscroft and her military husband. Is this a veiled symbol of Christie's love for Archibald her first husband, and how a female shattered their marriage. In this book, a female, albeit a sister, competes to destroy the joy of this happily married couple.

 "In death they were not divided" is on the gravestone of the Ravenscrofts. It is a reference to parent and child, King Saul and his faithful son, Jonathan. Saul's sins led to his downfall and he took his son down with him. The idea of loyalty between parent and child, masked in this book as loyalty between husband and wife, is what Christie is giving us as hope: love conquers all. In death they are not divided, because they are never divided in spirit.

 This book is a strong effort to document the most important truths in her life: Love and Loyalty, parent and child bond masked as the perfect love between husband and wife which she knew from experience to be imperfect. sister, Dolly, is the serpent in the garden of Eden.

 In modern times this sociopathic sister would have been more carefully watched and feared. We now know the general pattern of people like Dolly is to reoffend. It's touching to see the old beliefs that love alone will keep Dolly in line. Yet nowadays we would see her condition as progressive and she would not be allowed around children.

SeaView 23 Oct 11 at 2:21 p.m. GMT

I like what you say about tragic British romantic or Gothic mood to this book. I agree with you 100%. It is quite tragic. You explain it so well.

notguilty 27 Oct 11 at 7:28 p.m. GMT

Did not like this book.  Very wordy.  The first half, before Poirot becomes a central character, the book was boring and a chore to read.  After Poirot becomes involved, then the book picks up and became quite readable.  The first half of the book should have been summed up in two or three chapters.  They added very little to the story.

SeaView 30 Oct 11 at 7:55 p.m. GMT

@notguilty I completely agree with you. This book is wordy and wandering, which I said in another post was perhaps a sign of Christie's age. She did hammer home a very powerful issue by the end, however: the importance of memory, its fragility, and the very difficulties she has in writing the early chapters of this book, filled as it is with vaguaries and repetition, is a sadly all too clear sign of an aging brain. Yet again she pulls out a victory, she was incredibly astute and a sharp thinker most all of her life. She may wander and forget in this book, but by the end she's back on her beloved theme: Love Never Fails.

NightRayDuck 30 Oct 11 at 11:17 p.m. GMT

For me, this is a fun story to read. Not a very demanding mystery. But on the other hand definitely no improbable solutions chosen over more likely solutions just for the shock value.

Personally, I think this book will be very valuable as a mystery starter for kids below age 10. On top of being a relatively simple mystery, there's also all the value and tragedy of love. Most importantly, it shows that memory can be quite fragile, and suppositions ("theories") without sufficient facts can be quite erroneous - all very important things for kids to realize, when they tend to be talked at by older kids or by adults who might be quite blameless in other aspects but very badly mistaken in a particular matter they're discussing.

NightRayDuck 30 Oct 11 at 11:30 p.m. GMT

@Sheridasmith - I wondered, too, where Dolly's daughter is. In the edition I obtained recently, Poirot watched very closely Celia's reaction to one of the previous French governesses. I think that's the small, but quite certain demonstration that Celia is indeed Celia Ravenscroft, seeing as Dolly's daughter had been raised away from Dolly, and thus wouldn't have met the French governesses employed by the Ravenscrofts.