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Poirot Stories

Poirot is Agatha Christie's most famous and popular detective.  No doubt he would agree that he deserves that accolade!

Here is the place to discuss all of his stories in detail with other fans.  The most insightful comments will be added to the Stories pages.  But remember to beware spoilers!

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Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

Sad Cypress

Moderator1 05 Nov 09 at 9:22 a.m. GMT

Elinor Carlisle is happily engaged to Roddy Welman. Until, that is, Mary Gerrard enters their lives and Roddy is at once smitten with the girl.  Elinor appears to give in graciously to their union but what is really simmering under the surface?  When Mary is found dead after eating food prepared by Elinor it seems she must be guilty of murder - but Hercule Poirot isn't so sure....

Is this as much a love story as a murder mystery - a woman scorned perhaps?  Should someone feel bad enough to plead guilty to a crime if all they've done is think about commiting a murder? 

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26 replies

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carlotta_adams 24 Oct 11 at 1:47 a.m. GMT

At first I was completely convinced that Elinor was the murderer, but the ending really surprised me. It was cool.

Epsilon14 18 Aug 11 at 6:47 a.m. GMT

It was a fantastic book with a polished ending. As they say, 'All's Well That Ends Well'. Its amazing how Poirot solves the case. The court proceedings were also good. And it was a big surprise when I read that Nurse Hopkins was the murderer all along.

GKCfan 02 Aug 11 at 6:34 p.m. GMT

I believe that Sad Cypress is one of Christie's best-written books.  It is structured differently from most of her other mysteries, and unlike all but a couple of her other books the solution requires a little outside knowledge, but the characterization and plotting is exceptionally well-done.

Epsilon14 02 Aug 11 at 6:41 a.m. GMT

The reviews look negative. Lets hope I dont feel the same way when I start reading it.

Rahat 18 Jun 11 at 11:20 a.m. GMT

I just finished reading all the reviews and I must say I thought there would be more negative ones because honestly this was one of those rare Poirot books which left me wanting more. I thought the ending was unsatisfactory and as you know with detective/crime stories, the ending is vital for the whole story to work. AC fell short on this occasion. The principle reason being that the story needed more characters. But nevertheless, the characters were memorable as usual, in particular Mary and Elienor. I definitely wouldn't recommend this as anyone's first AC read. 

knottyceltic 30 Oct 10 at 12:44 a.m. GMT

I love both the novel AND the adaptation even with the differences in Mary's character.  I didn't mind to dislike or even "hate" Mary in the adaptation.  She had a CHOICE and she could have chosen not to accept attention and advances from Roddy.  Likewise with Roddy.  I thought AC was saying exactly THAT, that both of those people had choices. 

Her love for Roddy always reminds me of the love Jacqueline De Bellfort has for Simon Doyle. As Poirot says 'she loves too much', and he recognises that happiness does not come from such feelings.

I agree Jilly, that the depth of love is the same in Eleanor and Jacqueline.  The "advice" is the same in both too.  In both cases and older and wiser person tells these women the same message.  Poirot of Jacqueline "she loves too much" and Mrs. Welman to Eleanor "Love, but not too much". 

In adaptation, I ***LOVE*** the kitchen scene with the nurse!!!!  My heart was in my throat.

In canon, I loved the use of the "roses" in literary and literal terms.

MissQuin 28 Oct 10 at 9:58 a.m. GMT

spoilers!!! There's a huge difference between statements of facts and personal opinions.

Tommy A Jones: "I meant that the Nurse wasn't arrested because she escaped, also when Poirot and Doctor LIoyd is at the window Poirot proves Mary Wasn't The intended victim" Is a personal opinion being given as though it's an indisputable fact. But clearly Jones here thinks His Words Are LaW!!

The suggestion that Mary wasn't the intended victim is a red herring. If you don't know what that means, then look it up.

The entire dynamics of the  plot revolve around Nurse's schemes, her victim Mary and nurse's scapegoat Elinor.

Tommy_A_Jones 27 Oct 10 at 4:39 p.m. GMT

I meant that the Nurse wasn't arrested because she escaped, also when Poirot and Doctor LIoyd is at the window Poirot proves Mary Wasn't The intended victim

fnfrossard 25 Oct 10 at 9:08 p.m. GMT

I love this history! It is the best! Maybe becouse I'm brazilian and I love "love histories"!

ave27 15 Aug 10 at 5:48 p.m. GMT

Puffinjill

But is Elinor Carlisle really happily engaged to Roddy Welman?

I agree with what some other people have said. It is perfectly possible to love someone passionately and still be unhappy. In fact, it can be argued that love can cause as much unhappiness as it does happiness. The last line of the book says it all: Poirot tells Peter Lord: "She loved Mr. Welman...but with you, she can be happy." Elinor can relax some of the heavy, painful passion she has felt for Roddy and instead turn to the stable, comforting companionship of Dr. Lord.

MissQuin 14 Aug 10 at 4:45 p.m. GMT

Sad Cypress spoilers. It might help to re-read the end Tommy, as Nurse was caught. Because Poirot had her photo was wired over from OZ? I think it was. Police worked out she was murderer and she was a wanted woman. So the evidence was there as well as the drug packet  and the needle mark on the arm.

Also Mary was always the intended victim.

Tommy_A_Jones 13 Aug 10 at 4:33 p.m. GMT

I didn't like the way Nurse Holmes wasn't caught and I still don't understand why people think Mary was the intended victim when Poirot worked out when looking through the Kitchen Window with Dr Lord that is Elinor was.

Yunakitty 06 Aug 10 at 8:49 a.m. GMT

My problem with this story was just how did Nurse Hopkins think she was going to claim the giant inheritance?  Yeah, she could quietly disappear, change her appearance, and then pop up as the long lost aunt, but I hate those kinds of solutions.  And what a lot of planning and conniving that may or may not pan out...

MissQuin 13 Jul 10 at 3:03 p.m. GMT

Mary was always intended as the victim.

Which scene by the kicthen window?

Tommy_A_Jones 13 Jul 10 at 1:09 p.m. GMT

I preferred that ending to the one in the book, I like Murderers to be Arrested apart from in MOTOE

I have a question, was Mary the INtended victim?, the scerne by the Kitchen window suggests not.

Attica76 27 Jan 10 at 6:35 p.m. GMT

MissQuin

The part that bored me the most was the kitchen scene between Poirot and the nurse.. it wasnt in the book, but I was getting impatient, waiting for her to get arrested!

Interestingly, I found it one of the most exciting scenes. When it began I thought, "What, she's going to try and poison him too??" and became nervous as he started displaying poisoning symptoms.

MissQuin 27 Jan 10 at 4:47 p.m. GMT

I suspect Elinor couldn't help loving Roddy, as there may be no real reason. sigh. very romantic.

Suchet adaptation- I was waiting for things to pick up, only when Mary was killed did thinks start moving along. There were long pauses, which are fine in the book, but on TV  it just felt drawn it out. The part that bored me the most was the kitchen scene between Poirot and the nurse.. it wasnt in the book, but I was getting impatient, waiting for her to get arrested!

Bundle- I love the Sad Cypress book. I'm probably being too picky over the TV version.  I think that my standards after reading the book are so high, it would take a faultless episode of Poirot to match it.

Bundle_ 26 Jan 10 at 5:31 p.m. GMT

I suspected Roddy in the book too, MissQuin! I was convinced it was him!

But I agree w/ Attica: I love the adaptation of SC! As it was one of my favorite books I feel as if the adapt did it justice. And in mho it's one of the best. I could watch it over and over again and not get tired of it. I think it was romantic, and suspensful, and not in the least slow paced. What made you think so, MQ?

And it is kind of hard to see why Elinor loved Roddy. I think that must be why they got an attractive actor like Rupert Penry Jones to play Roddy instead of the guy who played Dr Lord. I bet orignally they each were cast for the others part.

Attica76 26 Jan 10 at 5:11 p.m. GMT

MissQuin

Puffinjill, I have heard that in Sad Cypress, Elinor may have been based on Agatha, Roddy was Archie and Dr Lord Max. I think this is believable and would explain why it's such a touching story.

Go leafs, I felt sorry for Mary too.  I didn't feel sorry for the TV version of her who was a scheming gold digger.

[...]

The actress who played Elinor was very good.

I actually liked the TV version a lot, even better than the book. And it didn't feel slow or dragged at all.

Especially the last part, where they made it more "dramatic" with Poirot racing against the time, the verdict of guilty having been brought in already, and his pretending to be poisoned!

MissQuin, It's very interesting about the (possible) real-life basis of the story.So Mary could be based on the woman that Archie left AC for? AC had her (written) revenge on her then, hehe.

But I can understand why Roddy became infatuated with Mary in the TV episode, she was beautiful (while Elinor was a bit staid), although there was something a bit "off" about her eyes. (And the thing they did to her face in the middle of the episode made me jump!) She didn't feel like a scheming gold-digger to me though, I don't think she planned on stealing Roddy in advance, she just took her chance when she saw it.

I liked the acting of "Elinor" too.

MissQuin 26 Jan 10 at 4:51 p.m. GMT

I sat down to relax and watch sad Cypress, I would have loved a faultless episode... but many things I found annoying or dull. I would like to have nothing to moan about, but sadly I have! I have to come here and get it off my chest!

What does Elinor really see in Roddy in the book? He has a weak characater, he cant make his mind up about Mary, so Elinor has to advise him what to do. We know he's not handsome (unlike Rupert Penry Jones!) not rich, he isnt devoted and faithful to Elinor, as he's heads turned by Mary. He soon forgets about Mary after she's died. Is it that Elinor has a false hero worship for him, after knowing him since she was a child?

 I did think Roddy was the murderer when I first read it!

Puffinjill 24 Jan 10 at 6:22 p.m. GMT

Yes, yes, yes, I have MissQuin and not just because I am a little bit of a fan of Mr Penry-Jones. I have to say, like you, I wasn't impressed with his performance in this adaptation. His Roddy was definately on the wet side and it was difficult to see why Elinor would be so passionately attracted to him!! I think she got the better deal ending up with the McGann brother who played Dr Lord!

All his aside, I quite liked the TV version. A bit slow but mostly faithful (they did get themselves in a bit of quandry about how they thought the character of Mary should come across and, in my very humble opinion, they got it wrong) so I couldn't find too much to moan about. There have been much, much worse.... 

MissQuin 24 Jan 10 at 11:39 a.m. GMT

Puffinjill, I have heard that in Sad Cypress, Elinor may have been based on Agatha, Roddy was Archie and Dr Lord Max. I think this is believable and would explain why it's such a touching story.

Go leafs, I felt sorry for Mary too.  I didn't feel sorry for the TV version of her who was a scheming gold digger. I didn't like the kitchen scene, as the 3 women reminding me of cackling hags!! Plus Mary had a relationship with Roddy, whereas she pushed him away in the book. I can't see any explanation for this.

I didn't enjoy the TV version of Sad Cypress very much. It was slow and dragged. Roddy was dull and bland, which is strange as I know Rupert Penry-Jones is an excellent actor. The actress who played Elinor was very good. Have you seen the TV version Puffinjill?

Puffinjill 24 Jan 10 at 8:10 a.m. GMT

Yes, MissQuin, I've always had a soft spot for Sad Cypress. But as I said in an earlier post, it's one that always leaves me with a feeling of sadness. I think you are right about Elinor and how she behaves. She is the product of her upbringing and her class (which might not sit very comfortably for some in this day and age) and, therefore, hides her powerfully passionate nature under a cool, calm, 'well-behaved' exterior. Loving Roddy as she does is a sadness rather than a joy as she is very perceptive and can see he just can't feel love in the same way as she does. If they had married, this would have eventually torn her apart.

Perhaps there is some of AC and her own feelings towards Archie Christie in Elinor. Agatha herself passionately adored her first husband but the strength of her love couldn't hold the relationship together. Her second marriage was more successful, as we hope Elinor's relationship with Dr Lord was, because it wasn't solely based on love. Mutual respect, companionship and friendship count as much in these relationships as the overriding passion did in AC's first marriage and Elinor's engagement to Roddy.

go_leafs_nation 23 Jan 10 at 3:34 p.m. GMT

I felt quite sorry for Mary. It wasn't as if she was trying to seduce Roddy and steal Elinor's fortune. She struck me as a very innocent young girl. The TV adaptation hardly did her justice by having her giggle maliciously like a fourth grader over Roddy's advances with the nurses.

MissQuin 22 Jan 10 at 3:51 p.m. GMT

Puffinjill

But is Elinor Carlisle really happily engaged to Roddy Welman?

I think Elinor loves Roddy, but it's completely one sided. Thats how he was so easily sidetracked by Mary. Then after Mary's gone, he hardly misses her. If Elinor had married Roddy, it would be a unhappy one. I hope Elinor found true love with the doctor. Although love plays a part of it, I wouldn't in any way call it a romance.

I LOVE Sad Cypress and I think many people do misunderstand Elinor. She acts in the way upper class people were brought up and were expected to act. To not show emotion. Is this one of your favourite Poirot's Puffinjill?

Puffinjill 07 Nov 09 at 7:48 a.m. GMT

But is Elinor Carlisle really happily engaged to Roddy Welman? I can never see it that way. Yes, she is undoubtably in love with him but this isn't making her happy. She is aware that Roddy's feelings fall short of her own and therefore feels she must hide the true depth of her love from him in fear of frightening him away. Is this a good basis for a relationship? I hardly think so. If they had married, I feel Elinor would have lived her life unsatified and disappointed in Roddy for being unable to match her nature.

Her love for Roddy always reminds me of the love Jacqueline De Bellfort has for Simon Doyle. As Poirot says 'she loves too much', and he recognises that happiness does not come from such feelings. Jacqueline is vocal about the way she feels and shows her passionate nature, but Elinor, who is very reserved and fearful of losing the man who means her world to her, has no way of showing her true nature. Everything is internalised and builds to breaking point through the lack of any form of safety valve.

So, murder mystery, yes; but love story, I'm not so sure. It's more of a study in how love can be a negative force for some instead of something good. Elinor feels blighted by having this love rather than feeling her life has meaning. The long-lasting impression this book always leaves me with is one of sadness. Thank Heavens there may be a happy ending awaiting her after so much sorrow. And don't we all wish life could provide a happy ending too...