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Sleeping Murder

ampman 19 Nov 09 at 6:49 a.m. GMT

I have just found an old copy of Sleeping Murder and underneath the title it says 'Miss Marples Last Case'. Now I had always assumed that Nemesis was her last case and as Sleeping Murder seems to be set in the 1930's, the First War is mentioned but not the Second, how can this be?

By the way, am I the only one to find Gwenda a real pain?

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32 replies

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Puffinjill 01 Dec 09 at 6:53 p.m. GMT

That's one scene I'm really not sure I want to watch! You can write that one!!

ampman 01 Dec 09 at 7:13 a.m. GMT

Miss M's love interest? Did I not mention the threesome with Jackie Afflick, ably played by Shane Ritchie, and the lady who sold her the summer vests played by Miriam Margolies? It all takes place after a drunken beatle drive in the church hall.

Puffinjill 30 Nov 09 at 3:45 p.m. GMT

Florida sounds fine, if it attracts major investment from Hollywood and keeps Mr Spielberg happy! I wish to be there when they film it, then.

If we are trying to attract ITV, then there is NO restriction whatsoever on how we decide to adapt it. Actually, we could just forget there ever was an original plot as the final outcome will bear no resemblence to it at all. In fact, your suggestions, ampman, as inventive as they are, may be a little tame for our friends at ITV. You don't mention a murder in your synopsis - shall we leave it out? After all, I can't imagine that's the reason why anyone actually watches the marple adaptations!

The thought of David Beckham/Giles and Stephen Fry/Walter Fane ending up together is inspired though. perhaps ITV will think it's time for Miss M to have a 'love interest'. Who could be causing her to turn those cartwhells at the end? Major Erskine? Or knowing ITV, Mrs Erskine?!?

ampman 30 Nov 09 at 2:58 p.m. GMT

I suppose that if we are aiming at the American market then perhaps we should move the location to Florida.

If we are writing for ITV  we can take all kind of liberties with the plot. Gwenda and Giles have recently moved from Estonia. Helen was a notorious nyphomaniac who collected stamps and in the end Giles goes off with Walter Fane, Gwenda opens a donkey sanctuary and Miss Marple does cartwheels down the esplanade during the closing credits.

Puffinjill 30 Nov 09 at 7:15 a.m. GMT

Mmm, I'm not a Russell Brand fan so I'm a little unsure about that call but I trust your judgemant, ampman. Leslie Phillips as Major Erskine is bang on, though!! Could I make a suggestion about the person to play his wife? How about moving Jordan/Katie Price to that role (if she finds she lacks the acting abililty, she can always draw on real life experience as a bitter ex-wife....cruel, I know, but should I care?)? I feel her and Mr Phillips will bring a special kind of energy to their scenes together - he all suave and upper class, her all screaming spite with a bit more of a common touch. I can see it now, but does it work for you, my friend?

Into the pivitol role of Lily Kimble we could, perhaps, get Helena Bonham-Carter. Oh, and I would pay good money to see Stephen Fry in any role!!!

ampman 29 Nov 09 at 1 p.m. GMT

More cast members' Raymond West.............Russell Brand

Raymond's wife ............Janet Street-Porter

Dr Haydock...................Anthony Head (Buffy the vampire slayer

                                                             Gold Blend ads etc)   

Walter Fane..................Stephen Fry

Edith Pagett...................Dawn French

Major Erskine.................Leslie Phillips

Lily Kimble.....................Jordan

Puffinjill 28 Nov 09 at 6:46 p.m. GMT

You are on, ampman, I can see our names up in lights already! I might even treat myself to a new frock in readiness for Oscar Night!!

Great cast, by the way. But I'm dithering over the Anthony Hopkins/Robbie Coltrane dilemma - either way would work for me!! And I'm with you on the Paris-Hilton-For-Gwenda campaign. Although I do not and never, ever have read/bought/ever give a thought to 'Celebrity' magazines, I have heard enough about her to see she would be amply annoying as the irritating Gwenda.

However, it depends on how quickly Mr Spielberg can get round to making the film as I believe Mr Beckham may be called to serve his country in South Africa next year at the World Cup. We can't lose Becks! The project would be nothing without him.

Let's get writing, ampman!!

Tommy_A_Jones 28 Nov 09 at 3:26 p.m. GMT

Shouldn't it be the othger way round? Dr Kennedy ....Robbie Coltrane, The Gardener Anthony Hopkins

ampman 28 Nov 09 at 2:26 p.m. GMT

Thanks Puffinjill. I think it would make a great film only the casting to sort out how about

Gwenda.............Paris Hilton

Giles.................David Beckham

Dr Kennedy........Anthony Hopkins

Miss Marple........Julie Walters

The Gardener......Robbie Coltrane

I'll dend it to Spielberg and we'll split the money!

Puffinjill 27 Nov 09 at 6:58 p.m. GMT

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Yes, darn her to foil the plot!! Nosey old woman, why did she want to come along and solve a perfectly good murder in the past and stop anyone putting Gwenda under the cellar floor?

I like your style, ampman!!! And I'm in no doubt now that Gwenda REALLY got on your nerves. So, what have we got of the plot so far? Giles, duringa spell of International Gun-Running in New Zealand (I believe it's a hotbed of anarchy there) meets sweet Gwenda and marries her while hiding from her the knowledge of his current love and their child. Taking Gwenda back to the land of his birth, she starts behaving rather strangely about the house she has chosen to buy and imagining there has been a murder there. Hoping that by encouraging her to pursue this he can have her committed to a mental institution and obtain a power of attorney but her new friend Miss Marple stops him from carrying out this plan. Then, when meeting Dr Kennedy who knew Gwenda as a child, he recognises a man after his own heart and together they secretly plot to end Gwendas existence and share the spoils together........

There you go, ampman. You flesh it out a bit and I think you've got a winner.

ampman 27 Nov 09 at 8:03 a.m. GMT

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I think that Giles had a secret mistress and love child and he and Dr Kennedy were in cahoots to kill off Gwenda and get the insurance money etc.  He had to wait until she had made a will in his favour and he would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that pesky Miss Marple.

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Nov 09 at 4:42 p.m. GMT

Just a Thought but there again I am sure lots of Husband's go away on Business without their wives and perhaps Gwen had lots of Committee Meeting to attend like other women in Poirot Books

Puffinjill 26 Nov 09 at 4:28 p.m. GMT

Mistress, Tommy?!? I'm shocked at the idea!! Mind you, if Gwenda started to get on his nerves after a while as she seems to have got on ours......well, who can say?

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Nov 09 at 4:23 p.m. GMT

Yes that's the Tape Puffin, I haven't listened to it for ages, btw, did I mention lastweek I watched Evil Under The Sun but didn't listen to Halloween Party. Perhaps sometimes Giles would be meeting with his Company's Chairman who was a strict family man so he had to have Gwendsa in tow but other times he was inspecting establishment's owned by his firm like Hotels etc so he could arrange to meet his Mistress so he wouldn't want Gwen with him

Puffinjill 26 Nov 09 at 4:20 p.m. GMT

(Tommy, I also have the dramatisation of The Sittaford Mystery with Stephen Tomkinson, but, alas, on tape and perilously overplayed. Is this the one you mean? I've always loved it!)

Sorry, just another little aside but back on topic the minute I can be!

Puffinjill 26 Nov 09 at 4:09 p.m. GMT

MMmmmmm. So sometimes the wife can go and at other times it would not be suitable, eh? That opens up a wide field of conjecture!! Anyone want to hazard any guesses at what the job might be and why bits of it might be unsuitable? Somehow, for all the travelling involved, I can't see Giles trekking to distant and dangerous places in the line of duty as he came seems much to sleek and middle-class to get his hands truly dirty! But if he did encounter any dangerous situations, at any time in his life, perhaps you would prefer he took Gwenda with him, ampman, and not bring her back!!

And it can't be organised crime, either. Drug smuggling, maybe, or perhaps White Slave Trader? I imagine those would provide enough income for their rather nice lifestyle and seven/eight bedroomed house. I jest, of course!! Probably just something rather predictable like Civil Service or Banking, I expect.

And, ampman, I too love Miss M's advice on never believing what people tell you. I certainly wouldn't listen to me!!!

Tommy_A_Jones 26 Nov 09 at 4:05 p.m. GMT

That's True but I have the Audio Cassette of that with Stephen Tompkinson so I knew who the Murderer was, thinking about it I aguely remember reading it, I think there is a Policeman with a name which is like a Village near me. In 4.50 From Paddington it says Missd Marple's Mother taught her never to be surprised by anything, I have made it a point not to be.

ampman 26 Nov 09 at 7:32 a.m. GMT

Back to the plot. All it says in the book about Giles' job is that it involved a lot of travelling and although Gwenda would accompany him sometimes on some occasions 'the conditions would not be suitable'. What can they mean? The mind boggles. Two other little peices that caught my eye were the decsription of Raymond West's appearance, 'like a pouncing raven' and MM's advice never to believe what people tell you." I haven't for years", she says. Sound advice.

Puffinjill 24 Nov 09 at 6:59 p.m. GMT

Ooooh, I bet they do Tommy!! If it's ripe for adapting, then you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will find an unconvincing and ridiculous way of shoving Miss Marple into it! They did The Sittaford Mystery, didn't they? Enough said!!!

And bless you for letting me whitter on and on at you! Your patience seems to know no bounds, my friend! But, again, we seem to have veered wildly from the topic ampman stared about Sleeping Murder! All my fault as usual!!

Tommy_A_Jones 24 Nov 09 at 3:01 p.m. GMT

Don't shut up on my account, I love Discussing the Books, afew years ago I bought them all when I saw them Advertized on Television, I thought I had all the plays but as I think I told you I haven't got the play Card's On The Table and I can't remember seeing Murder At The Vicarage (I saw an AM DRAM version afew years ago), You are right about different Collections, I saw On Amazon a Collection of stories with Supt Battle and one with Colonel Race, You are right everytime you read one you notice something different, just like sometimes when you look at a Painting you notice something else, I am glad I have some really good books to read but sadly due to the fact I love watching Poirot I know who some of ther Murderers are but with some I can't remember the names and but know who played the Characters but I refrain from looking on IMDB which ewould tell me who played who, I knew in all but one occassion who the Murderer was in Miss Marple stories as I watched the JHs before buying the books but there were still things which wwere slightly different to keep me entertained, with the Poirot's I have a rule I don't watch one for a 2nd time until I have read it, I have 2 Non-series books where I don't know who the Murderer is, one has been Televised years ago and one to my knowledge never has I so hope ITV don't put MM in them 

Puffinjill 24 Nov 09 at 6:37 a.m. GMT

I've been checking through, and I don't have While The Light Lasts, the short story collection (only published in the 90's, I think). There are probably one or two other collections put together well after her death ( and mainly just to cash in on us ardent fans!) that I am missing. I do have Problem At Pollensa Bay, though.

I envy you Tommy, with some really great books still to discover for the first time! Reading a book for the FIRST time, becoming wrapped up in the mystery; nothing quite comes close! Each time you reread an old favourite, you might discover something new in it or see something from another angle but that initial experience of discovering a new situation and new characters is very hard to beat! It's like being shown another small piece of the wonderful world of Christiedom, each piece adding to the ones you already know and helping you appreciate the whole picture.

Yes, I know I am going on a bit and I know they are just books but, to me, they mean a lot. I'll shut up now. I should get back to the topic that ampman started!

Puffinjill 23 Nov 09 at 7:14 p.m. GMT

I've read them all, Tommy, apart from some of the novelisations of the plays. I have read Black Coffee and Spiders Web. I think I may have missed out on the odd short story as there are SO many different collections of them! I have the main ones, though.

You've still got some crackers to read, Tommy!!

Tommy_A_Jones 23 Nov 09 at 1:51 p.m. GMT

I can never remember some details, was it only in the JH version the Meat Martketing Board was mentioned, I thought he had something to do with a Mining Company but there again that's Pocketful of Rye isn't it and a Poirot short story?

I counted the other day how many I have left to read, let me think, At Bertrams Hotel, and one other MM book of short stories, (I have read The Thirteen Problems,), The Sittaford Mystery, The Pale Horse, Ordeal By Innocense, Destination Unknown, and afew Poirot's;

Death On The Nile,

 Hercule Poirot's Christmas,

Murder In Mesopotamia,

 Dumb Witness,

Sad Cyprus,

Taken At The Flood,

Murder On The Links,

Hickory Dickory Dock,

Peril At End House.

I am sure there is another Poirot I haven't read but can't remember what it is called, The only Collection of Short stories I have read is The Labours of Hercules Some I books I will re-read as I can't remember them and I started Dumb Witness but lost it so will read that again and I haven't read Problems At Polensia Bay and had The Mysterious Mr Quinn read to me whern I was in Hospital but not the last story sdo will read that sometime I hasven't read While The Lamp Lasts either or the Plays What about you Puffin?   

Puffinjill 22 Nov 09 at 7:03 p.m. GMT

That sounds much more socially respectable than owning Butchers shops! We seem to be stuck on it being something to do with meat - again due to the JH adaptation! It could actually be anything!

Anyway, just to go a little off topic (I appologise now!), are there many AC books you have yet to read, Tommy?

Tommy_A_Jones 22 Nov 09 at 12:38 p.m. GMT

Yes that sounds a great idea, That would make him a Farmer and Land Owner which he would probably think is more respectable. You are right, I haven't read The Pale Horse I am leaving it to tyhe end as I know Characters from other books appear in it.

Puffinjill 21 Nov 09 at 5:25 p.m. GMT

I loved Mrs Dane Calthrop's quick intellegence and her insight. She is in fine form in The Pale Horse where she makes some great comments on sin. But I don't think you have read that one yet, have you Tommy, so I won't say anymore!!

I like the idea of Giles owning a chain of Butchers shops! But, somehow, I think that sounds a little too 'trade' for Giles and Gwennie! Great suggestion, though. Perhaps he has made his fortune in New Zealand Lamb!!!

Tommy_A_Jones 21 Nov 09 at 3:47 p.m. GMT

The fact that Miss Marple appeared near the end id the only thing that spoilt the bvook for me like in The Clocks with Poirot but the bit about the book means I forgive that, As for Giles's Job maybe he stored up leavce or has shares he can live on for a while, I assumed he worked for a Mining company but that is A Pocketful of Rye isn't it? perhaps he owns a Chain of Butchers so can afford to take time off.

Funny how people have different oppinions on Characters, I didn't like The Vicars wife I thought she was a bit cold

Puffinjill 21 Nov 09 at 2:28 p.m. GMT

Yes, I like the Burtons in The Moving Finger. In fact, it's one of my favourite Marples, even though Miss M only appears briefly. It almost feels like a guest appearence!! And The Moving Finger gave us the wonderful Dane Calthrops, who go on to appear in another of my very favourites, namely The Pale Horse.

Perhaps I am unfair to Giles and Gwenda. They are both very young and are very wrapped up in themselves and their own affairs, which is forgivable as they are newly married. But can anyone tell me, what on earth does Giles do for a living? He has travelled extensively due to his job (presumably to New Zealand) and it is stated in the book he will be away from home for long periods of time, but no actual business is mentioned. In the adaptation, I think he says something about the Meat Marketing Board but I don't think that is in the book. Whatever it is, it's certainly well paid!!! And with a decent amount of staying-at-home-and-chasing-after-murderers-leisure time!!!

Any guesses?

Tommy_A_Jones 21 Nov 09 at 1:15 p.m. GMT

I agree with your Analysis, there are some people who when you think of them you just want to hum 'Workers playtime and Gwen and Giles are just 2 of those people, I put it down to spending so much time abroad in a Country where I think they have a slower pace, I use tyo think of it as a later book then realised that was because it wasn't published until the 70s but written in the 40s (I think), I enjoy all the Tracking down they did (with Miss Marple's help), they are a bit like Jerry and his sister (The Moving Finger) but Jerry and his sister are more likeable

Puffinjill 21 Nov 09 at 8:03 a.m. GMT

I think they both just have the arrogance of those who have had comfortable lives and are used to having everything they need or want. They always feel slightly dated to me which is unusual as (apart from some of her work from the sixties/early seventies which have definate references to when they are set) mostly everything else she wrote can be viewed from a different age without any jarring notes. Most of her characters are very much of their time and written well enough so that even if we now no longer have similar lives we can see they are right for their time.

Perhaps not knowing exactly when to place Sleeping Murder adds to this. I think I always think of it as set in the 1950's, probably due to the Joan Hickson dramatisation which set all Miss M's works in that decade although they should start in the 1930's. As AC wasn't sure when it would be published, it is deliberately vague what period the book is from. Because I always think of it as a later book, I find Gwenda and Giles a bit dated and a bit out of sync with the way society is changing. However, if viewed from an earlier decade, they would probably fit into society more naturally.

Having said all this, they don't really affect my enjoyment of the book. It's a small jarring note but possibly due to my perception rather than AC's characterisation!

Tommy_A_Jones 20 Nov 09 at 4:37 p.m. GMT

I found Gwenda and Giles both annoying, I thought they were humouring Miss Marple so thought they were both Patronizing, They wanted Miss Marple's assistance but wanted to keep the Adventure for themselves or am I wrong? Anyway All said and done I wish we could have had more of then and loved the book.

Puffinjill 20 Nov 09 at 6:57 a.m. GMT

It was the last case of Miss Marples to be published so I think that is why it has the subtitle of 'last case'. According to her autobiography, she wrote this and Curtain during WW2 and placed them in a vault of a bank and gave the rights of Sleeping Murder (I think but I'm not 100%) to Max and the other to Rosalind. I think Curtain was published just befor she died, then Sleeping Murder was published after. However, I have read that the new John Curran book Secret Notebooks puts a different light on this but as I am still to get a copy and read it I'm not sure what the truth is.

It certainly doesn't read as Miss M's last case chronologically as she seems much more active than in Nemesis. Bless her, she was never young in any of the books but her physical frailty is more noticable in Nemesis and the tone (Miss M reading the obituarys and ruminating on the death of her generation) is more sombre. I think Sleeping Murder just comes last on the list and therefore is thought of as her last case instead of just the last one published. Because Curtain is most definately Poirot's last case in every sense I think it is just assumed Sleeping Murder is the same.

As for Gwenda, I find her a little irritating at times. But perhaps I'm being unfair. I've never been a well-to-do, young, recently married New Zealander who can buy a seven (was it seven or eight?) bedroomed house at the drop of a hat so perhaps I am just unable to empathise with her!!! Or perhaps I'm just jealous! The only thing we have in common is the fact we both had bunny slippers once.