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Death in the clouds

Monachie 17 Jun 09 at 10 a.m. GMT

I love Poirot and will read anything with him in it. However, I am quite concerned about an offensive racial term used in Death in the Clouds. I do hope the editors & publishing house have or will corerect this in newer editions.

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Tommy_A_Jones 03 Apr 11 at 3:50 p.m. GMT

Thyankyou GKCfan One downside which annoys me about Agatha Christies books and it is totally irrational and unimportant but I hate the gfact she uses the same surname for characters The Bundle books asweell as one short has an Eversleigh and Why Didn't They Ask Evans and They Came to Baghdad both have Jones's

GKCfan 02 Apr 11 at 7:36 p.m. GMT

Katherine Grey is a character in Blue Train.  Jane Grey is in Clouds.  Both are intelligent, capable women who assist Poirot in the investigation, but as far as we know they're not related.  They also have very different backstories.

Tommy_A_Jones 02 Apr 11 at 4:17 p.m. GMT

I have a question, In Death In The Clouds one of the Characters has the surname Grey Doesn't she, Is she also in  Mystery of The Blue Train?

Puffinjill 12 Oct 09 at 2:50 p.m. GMT

I agree, Cicely, I tend to prefer the original text rather than adaptations. What are you going to read next?

Cicely 09 Oct 09 at 2:13 a.m. GMT

Tommy, I certainly agree with you that more people should read Agatha Christie!  I have finished reading The Hollow recently and decided to pick up Death in the Clouds again and re-read it.  I am really enjoying it as I am most familiar with the DVD version.  I am disappointed at how much of the story is changed for the DVD.  I am a purist and love to go back to AC's original story.  She was so creative and is now a classic! 

Tommy_A_Jones 30 Sep 09 at 2:11 p.m. GMT

What I was trying to get at (And failed) Is the fact that alot of the time these days both on Television and Films Black People are portrayed as Rough Nasty Dangerous people and making those two just plain thugs would have been just as effective without mentioning their Race. I wasn't trying to be sensitive to Black people I was just meaning that changing parts of text slightly might encourage more people top read Novels by Agatha Christie and her contemporaries which I would have thought is what we all want as idf the demand goes it will make the world a worse place for others.

Cicely 29 Sep 09 at 4:30 p.m. GMT

Perhaps, Tommy A. Jones, but whatever happened to the plain, ordinary meaning of the word 'negroes'?  That word describes a race just like 'caucasian', 'oriental', or 'indian', etc.  That word should be able to be used to describe a person of that race without meaning something derrogatory.  The "N" word, that is so offensive today, is a slang pronunciation of the word 'negro'.  Somebody just decided to make it offensive.  I think you are trying to be sensitive to people who are offended by that term and that is commendable.  Perhaps the editors and publishers could put a disclaimer page at the beginning of such a book and remind readers that potentially offensive words are used in the author's story as originally written, but that doesn't reflect any opinions of the publishers.  That would be true to the author. 

Tommy_A_Jones 29 Sep 09 at 2:55 p.m. GMT

I agree with you Cicely, Interestingly I was reading They Do It With Mirrors this morning and Inspector Curry asked Miss Marple who she thought was the 'N in the woodpile' was, after my initial surprise I realised the sought of person he was he would say that as it is probably a saying he grew up with but I do think in most cases like the change to the Title of And Then There Were None and in a story in Parker Pyne investigates where 2 'Negros' atre attacking somebody (Even though it was a put up job to help someone PP was helping) I think it is right to make slight changes in order not to offend people - the word Negroes could have been changed to Thugs, Brutes or Ruffians - I think Accuracy is more important in other ways

Cicely 28 Sep 09 at 8:41 p.m. GMT

I think the editors and publishing houses should leave the creative works of authors as the author wrote it.  Remember, it is a story.  I have never felt that AC meant to degrade anyone or any group when she used any of several descriptive words that would be considered offensive in today's ultra-sensitive politically correct world.  She frequently uses the word "foreigner" to describe people.  It is a descriptive term which conveys the perspective of the character who used the word.  Sometimes characters use words you or I would not use, but the words they use contribute to who they are as a character and help us, the readers, understand better who they are.  I don't use words that I know offend others, but at the same time, I think people should lighten up a little about this, especially considering the context.

Bundle_ 16 Sep 09 at 12:52 p.m. GMT

I hope I'm posting in the right place.

But I have another interesting question: What was Norman Gale going to do if there had not been a male steward one board the airplane??

Tommy_A_Jones 27 Jun 09 at 12:57 p.m. GMT

If changing certain words means that more people are inclined to read the books and more likely the books are Televised that can only be a good thing, not only because it might encourage people to read other AC books which wont cause offence but people might then be encouraged to read the work of other Crime Writers which is what happened to me.

jolley74 26 Jun 09 at 6:35 p.m. GMT

Sorry to all if i have offended anyone

jolley74 26 Jun 09 at 6:23 p.m. GMT

I dont see why the books shouldnt be left alone thats the way they were published and that should be the way they are read

It gives you an insight into the way life was in the bygone days

I am not racist either and can understand what offence things can cause but a true AC fan will see through this and enjoy the books no matter how shocking

Number3 22 Jun 09 at 4:48 p.m. GMT

As Winnebago said, the vernacular back then was different.  The original tittle of "Then there were none" would cause a major scandal today.

I recently read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and that vernacular in that would would send a person into a fit if it was written in present time.

Tommy_A_Jones 18 Jun 09 at 10:48 a.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

I wouldn't haver thought it would always be very difficult, they managed to change the title of ATTWN and in Parker Pyne Investigates when the Man he is helping in one of the stories (1 with Ariadne) sees 2 negroes attacking a Girl the word negroes could be substituted for the word Men but as it happens the whole thing was set up by Parker Pyne so it could be interpreted that they were helping the man

AndThenThereWereToon 18 Jun 09 at 8:47 a.m. GMT

There are a couple to choose from.  D'you mean "They didn't like... negroes" or "Ikey Andrew"?

To be honest, it'd be hard work for an editor to remove all potentially offensive racial material from AC's work.  It's not really her fault - people just talked and thought like that at the time. 

Frndorfoe 17 Jun 09 at 6:38 p.m. GMT

Like WINNEBAGO I also read Death in the Clouds a long time ago. So, I do not remember about any offensive racial term used in that book. Personally I like the story. The murder was especially clever. I would give it 6/10.

Tommy_A_Jones 17 Jun 09 at 10:31 a.m. GMT

I love Death In The Clouds and would give it 10 It ius a long time sincde I read the book so can't remember the racism you talk of but I am sure future Issues will take it out as they have with And Then There Was None although in my version of 'Parker Pyne Investigates' there is mild racism in one of the stories and the Copy was part of the Collection Advertised a few years ago so maybe not.