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Dislikeable Victims

Lone_Wolf 06 May 10 at 12:57 p.m. GMT

What's you attitude to overly dislikeable victims in detective stories?

To some people, the dislikableness of the victim is one of the Golden Age Mysteries' stereotypical trait that emphasises on the game-ness of the story. They even appreciate it.

Not me, though. I read every mystery novel as a novel first, mystery second (I found some people to be unable to appreciate the characters and the setting in a mystery novel because they spend the whole reading frantically looking for clues), and an overly dislikeable victim causes me to care less about the book - if the victim is too dislikeable, you don't emotionally care much in delivering justice to his/her murderer.

That's one of the reasons why Оrient Еxpress is emotionally dry for me. I liked Аppointment with Dеath, but that was because of a very involved and sympathetic cast of other characters.

Now, I'm not saying that murdered people shoud be downright angels - Linnet Doyle's, for instance, level of dislikeablility is fine by me, since I still felt she doesn't deserve to be murdered (there's actually a touching episode about it later in the book).

But to me, they need to have some degree of likeablility and preferrably be relatable.

Thoughts?

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6 replies

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BrigidM 06 Mar 12 at 4:06 p.m. GMT

Yes, I think they need to be maybe slightly likeable, or else you feel there's no point in actually finding out WHO killed them - because you don't really care anyway.

NightRayDuck 15 Feb 11 at 7:15 a.m. GMT

I agree with you both - I don't go and try to browse the whole "Mystery" section of a book store, because I want to enjoy whatever it is that I read, and I know by experience that I had absolutely failed to appreciate some absolute classics in other genres... and enjoyed some of the "fluffy" pieces very much. In being a story, the writing ought to get a combination of plot line, character, and genre stuff (ex. puzzle and mystery) in a varying combination, each element to a greater or lesser degree, but all present and in a consistent style / mood so that the various elements aren't constantly interrupting each other.

I think a chess-puzzle plot, in these days, might do better as the basis of some sort of mystery game on the computer. No point in writing everything down in prose, if each item can be written as a plain statement of finding in a "case".

Lone_Wolf 08 May 10 at 12:19 p.m. GMT

"So let me see if we agree here: I don't want a dry, pure chess-puzzle plot, but I don't mind if the characters are "just OK"."

I share the same sentiments, and vice versa. I don't mind an OK plot if the characters are very well drawn. The latter books tend to be more enjoyable on second read.

go_leafs_nation 08 May 10 at 12:08 p.m. GMT

I see what you say! Certainly characters are a big part of writing, but personally, I'd rather have a great story then great characters. But the two elements cannot be seperated- the characters have to be (at the very worst) decent, unless we're talking anout the early chess-puzzle mysteries a la S.S. Van Dine, where the characters were playing ring around the rosy around the study when the crime took place, and the killer is always the one who was talking with a police officer at the time. (Those were not very good.) Van Dine's Twenty Commandments for writing detective stories (http://gadetection.pbworks.com/Van+Dine%27s+Twenty+Rules+for+Writing+Detective+Stories) served mainly to put down other works and make his own seem better, but some of those guidelines are alarming! (No love interests???)

So let me see if we agree here: I don't want a dry, pure chess-puzzle plot, but I don't mind if the characters are "just OK".

As for unlikeable murder victims, it could potentially be bad (depends on the book), but generally, I don't mind so much. But an even better device is a very likeable murder victim, like Aunt Cora of After the Funeral- it makes you want to find out who could've possibly murdered her (in such a brutal way) even more.

Lone_Wolf 08 May 10 at 10:37 a.m. GMT

"I read a mystery the same way I read any other novel- essentially, I want a good story".

I agree in that a mystery should be read as novel to get full enjoyment of it. However, I think that authors should be wary of approaching writing a mystery novel as writing a mere good puzzle. Beware of emotional dryness.

"(unless they are such worms that you can't focus on the story, in which case, we have a problem)."

It's not really about them being worms or not. When characters are nothing but mere names to jiggle around in a puzzle, then it becomes a problem.

I agree with you that no well-drawn characters can save a bad plot, but they can redeem a mediocre one. Thе Hоllow is one of my favourite Christie novels, despite the plot itself being rather mediocre. In fact, I enjoyed it much more on second read.

go_leafs_nation 08 May 10 at 3:41 a.m. GMT

I read a mystery the same way I read any other novel- essentially, I want a good story. Characterization be damned, if the story (and in the case of a mystery, the puzzle) isn't good, I probably won't care how realistic the characters are. That being said, a degree of realism is necessary, but I don't psychoanalyze the characters to see just how complex and realistic they are. The story comes first- characters and so forth are secondary issues (unless they are such worms that you can't focus on the story, in which case, we have a problem).

Unlikeable murder victims can potentially be either an author lazily coming up with a motive that universally suits the suspects, or, as in Appointment With Death, they can transcend such barriers. I don't mind either, really, so long as the story and puzzle is good.