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Please use this area for any Topics you feel don't fit in with other areas of the forum.

Off topic discussions

MissQuin 21 Dec 10 at 2:53 p.m. GMT

Ok, so the old thread was getting slow to load. Here everyones welcome to discuss non Chrisite things.

In response to number 3- the weather is pretty bad in parts of the UK. But It gives me the excuse to stay in and read, watch DVDs and surf online.

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329 replies

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john_c_hamilton 01 Feb 12 at 9:32 a.m. GMT

StephenNorton, I think it is fairly nice. How did you get access to it? Do you speak Japanese?

Number3 31 Jan 12 at 10:06 p.m. GMT

Harley welcome back.  During the school year I too pop in and out of the forum.  Oh the joy of being a professional educator.  One gets so busy encouraging students to read, that your own person reading time shrinks  in order to help others. 

But, I do enjoy being an educator and sharring books with the students.

treplag 25 Jan 12 at 12:17 a.m. GMT

I would like to start a new forum.  Can someone tell me how to do that?

NightRayDuck 24 Jan 12 at 8:48 p.m. GMT

treplag - I know. it's one of those mysterious snags that many users experience differently (or not at all) on this website~

StephenNorton 24 Jan 12 at 8:35 p.m. GMT

I have a little question, does anyone here knows Umineko no naku koro ni (chiru)? if so what did you think about it ?

treplag 24 Jan 12 at 8:35 p.m. GMT

Ray,  I receive the newsletter every month.

NightRayDuck 24 Jan 12 at 8:30 p.m. GMT

john - I am familiar with the original Sherlock Holmes titles, and I did notice the titles of the episodes in the new series. It's just that when you first asked if anyone has seen the Scandal in Belgravia, I did not know that it was a new episode of the series.

NightRayDuck 24 Jan 12 at 8:27 p.m. GMT

Betty - I am signed up for newsletter and I know it's not going into the spam folder or trash folder, but I actually see approx 3 issues of newsletters a year. It doesn't appear to be issued on any type of schedule.

treplag 24 Jan 12 at 7:48 p.m. GMT

Betty - You might want to make sure that it isn't going to your spam or junk folder.  Look for it there, and if you find it, just click on the tab that says "Not Spam", and it will be moved to your inbox. If it isn't there, I don't know what else to suggest.

BETTY 24 Jan 12 at 5:46 p.m. GMT

I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME. I HAVE  SIGNED UP FOR THE NEWSLETTER SEVERAL TIMES AND I STILL DON'T RECEIVE IT. I CAN I START GETTING IT IN MY E-MAIL. THANKS. P.S. I USE CAPITAL LETTERS BECAUSE IT IS EASIER FOR ME.

john_c_hamilton 24 Jan 12 at 4:16 p.m. GMT

Ray, The story is actually based on 'A Scandal in Bohemia' as all 'Sherlock' episodes are - featuring an altered title (eg. 'A Study in Scarlet' becomes a 'Study in Pink' etc).

NightRayDuck 16 Jan 12 at 9:23 p.m. GMT

Hello HarleyBarley! Good to see you.

HarleyBarley 16 Jan 12 at 10:43 a.m. GMT

I am not certain how long I have vanished, but it's been quite the long time. Hello again, forum.

NightRayDuck 06 Jan 12 at 8:53 p.m. GMT

john_c mentioned a recent show called "A Scandal in Belgravia". Tommy's response to that show, I gather, was that it's neither here nor there. I have to say I was puzzled and intrigued when I first saw the title of the show in john_c's post. The "A Scandal in ______" type of title really showed up only once in canonical Sherlock Holmes stories by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and in that instance it was "A Scandal in Bohemia". When I saw "Belgravia", my first reaction was "I think that does not mean Belgrade..", my second reaction was "Ms. Anne Perry's 'Insp. Thomas Pitt and his wife Charlotte' series had many stories about scandals among wealthy Londoners, and one of the stories was 'Belgrave Square'." Beyond that, I had no ideas at all. Certainly I did not expect the adapt to feature Sherlock Holmes. The commissions that the original Mr. Holmes regularly took up were often about avoiding scandals, about hushing up a matter quickly and smoothly, and so there really wouldn't be much material to make a long and slow episode out of, if you see what I mean..

NightRayDuck 06 Jan 12 at 8:51 p.m. GMT

Copied from the "AC Quiz" thread. About a new adapt of something that probably doesn't exist canonically...? Tommy_A_Jones 06 Jan 12 at 1:55 p.m. GMT

I have and I am afraid I didn't like it at all, It was much to slow, I admit I have not read much Holmes so I only noticed the Reference with Mary Adler who they made a Lesbian and the Pipe and Violin stuff, Watson had anew Girlfriend from the last series which is a shame.

I can't really talk though because it seemed the Episode was just for Holmes Fans and I am always thinking why are ITV pandering to Non-Christie Fans which what it seems to me with Marple because to me Non-Christie Fans shouldn't be pandered to and it seems to me Non Holms Fans are ignored with 'Scandle To Belgravia' but perhaps I am beig too harsh.

Quote in reply Report abuse, spam or spoiler john_c_hamilton 05 Jan 12 at 3:54 p.m. GMT

OK, I will find a question for tomorrow morning or later tonight. In the meantime has anyone watched a 'Scandal in Belgravia' on BBC1?

Number3 26 Dec 11 at 9:41 p.m. GMT

Happy Boxing Day.

Night Ray I read plenty of the Encyclopedia Brown Series when I was in grade 1 and 2.  I borrowed them from my older sibling. We shared those along with The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.  We were equal opportunity readers.

Another childhood mystery that sticks out in my mind was by Issac Asimov and part of it took place in a museum.  Unfortunately I can't remember the tittle.

GKCfan 18 Dec 11 at 6:06 a.m. GMT

Most of the Encyclopedia Brown stories are written for young children, but require facts that only older readers would know.  For examples (SPOILERS!) you need to know that penguins don't live at the North Pole, or that dogs are colorblind, or which direction doorhinges swing, or the proper way for men and women to sit in a restaurant.  Most require knowledge of trivia, but others are simple logic problems, or require readers to note a hole in a story.  

NightRayDuck 18 Dec 11 at 4:33 a.m. GMT

Thanks, GKCfan. I think I had read several Encyclopedia Brown stories when I was a kid, but I don't remember much. I only have a vague impression that many of the solutions depended on proving that somebody is deliberately making a false statement. But I never quite understood how the sleuth had such a small pool of suspects to start with. In one story, I think it was a robbery or theft, Brown went and questioned one man and proved his alibi to be false and that was that.

GKCfan 17 Dec 11 at 8:22 p.m. GMT

NightRayDuck, I always enjoyed the Encyclopedia Brown series when I read them when I was younger.  The big problem was that sometimes Sobel used the same solution in his "Two-Minute Mysteries" that he did in the longer Brown stories.  Also, at times the solution was faulty.  (SPOILER WARNING!)  In one case, Brown disproves a story by pointing out that a wrongly accused man couldn't have sllt open an envelope because Chinese restaurants don't have table knives.  But the vast majority of Chinese restaurants I've eaten at over the years have table knives!

cameronjhw 17 Dec 11 at 6:51 p.m. GMT

Hello, I was wondering if there is anyone out there who has seen the just release sequel of Sherlock Holmes a Game of Shadows with Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law yet. I managed to watch a private screening of this film on the night before it was released in theaters. I was with some friends and I must say I enjoyed this very much. I know in general the sequel is not as good as the first one but in this case I disagree. This sequel is much better than the original. Lots more action, thrills, surprises, and Downey's Holmes has a varied number of disguises he assumes in this one. I won't give anything away so I won't spoil those who plan to see this. But I will say it features a number of Sherlock Holmes characters who were in the first movie like Mary Morstan, Irene Adler, Inspector Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson and also two other memorable characters-Mycroft Holmes and the Napoleon of Crime himself Professor Moriarty. This film is set close to the beginining of WWI. Holmes and Watson practically go all over Europe to prevent a sinister and dangerous plot. Again I won't say anymore but if you have seen the first movie I strongly suggest you see this new sequel and judge for yourself.

NightRayDuck 16 Dec 11 at 8:04 p.m. GMT

got a random question.. has anyone read the "Encyclopedia Brown" stories? what did you like or dislike about that series?

NightRayDuck 11 Nov 11 at 10 p.m. GMT

I watched the documentary "The Many Faces of Sherlock Holmes". It's fun! but it looked like many of the adaptations were about monsters menacing ladies in nightdresses, and Holmes and Watson protecting the ladies. Given that, I don't know where those critics got the idea that Sherlock Holmes should be old and stiff and quiet, when they criticized Guy Ritchie's "Sherlock Holmes" in 2009.

NightRayDuck 30 Oct 11 at 10:53 p.m. GMT

I finished reading Elephants Can Remember. As a "mystery" to be solved by the reader, it's quite clearly and fairly laid out; the main investigators even keep complaining that the people they interviewed are often muddled as to names, places, and dates. I can quite see readers finding it confusing, especially if one got an edition where an over-zealous publisher or editor thought they ought to straighten up the many "inconsistencies" in the story. But the professional literary reviewers and critics who said the story was horribly inconsistent - they didn't pay attention or think logically when they read the story.

Given a good copy that's not been savaged by over-enthusiastic editors, I think the only thing that a careful reader can complain about is that Elephants Can Remember does not contain any very ingenious alibi, over-shocking and near-improbable motives, or extra-evil villain. I think the complexity of this mystery is about level with Taken at the Flood, but with the advantage of a definite solution - not only that "the characters confessed thus" - but also "the case could have happened in only one way".

NightRayDuck 29 Oct 11 at 4:24 p.m. GMT

I am reading Elephants Can Remember. I am happy with it so far. Mrs. Oliver's thought process is as intuitive and tangential as ever, making her conversation seem rather scattered.

NightRayDuck 18 Oct 11 at 7:27 p.m. GMT

I haven't. I am not much good for reading memoirs.

Another off-topic thing about reading, though. I've never actually opened an "Inspector Lynley" book, but I had been slightly bewildered by the TV adapt. I was very surprised when I found out that the author of that series is an American lady. I don't know exactly why, but I find it very surprising.

Number3 13 Oct 11 at 10:12 p.m. GMT

I'm currently reading Max's memoirs.  Has anyone else read it?

Number3 24 Sep 11 at 4:45 p.m. GMT

I'm back teaching at my old school so, my posts might be few and far between.  At least until school holidays.

NightRayDuck 08 Sep 11 at 2:53 a.m. GMT

I was reading a travel magazine, there was a "hall of mirrors" or was it "room of mirrors" in the Palace something forgot the name, the particular room built by Leopold II, King of Belium, the house previously owned by other dignitaries, originally built by a wealthy merchant..

The photograph of the room contains full view of wall-to-wall and one end of the room, while the photograph is only a quarter-size of the magazine page, so the room looks rather claustrophobic in that photo. It reminds me of the main hall in "The Dead Harlequin", though.

Number3 05 Sep 11 at 9:35 p.m. GMT

I had another round of commedia spotting last night.  I was looking at an episode of Inspector Lewis and saw two characters. The Harlequin and The Doctor.  

NightRayDuck 15 Aug 11 at 7:39 p.m. GMT

I haven't looked at the documentary yet. I have finished reading the Project Gutenberg e-book of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland". My favorite bit is where the randomly cheering jury member gets suppressed in court.

NightRayDuck 07 Aug 11 at 10:22 p.m. GMT

Oh! So I can find the absinthe documentary on hulu, too! Yay! :D

I wanted to find out about absinthe because the only alcoholic beverage that had got me straight-up sick was a mixed drink containing absinthe. o.O

Number3 07 Aug 11 at 12:45 p.m. GMT

At the moment, I want to go look up Absinthe ingredient and alcohol content...

Talk about irony, in the documentary  section on Hulu.com there is a whole documentary about Absinthe that I recently watched.

NightRayDuck 07 Aug 11 at 1:44 a.m. GMT

oh! yes, Number3, I'll certainly make a note of looking up this documentary. thank you!

At the moment, I want to go look up Absinthe ingredient and alcohol content...

Number3 06 Aug 11 at 8:32 p.m. GMT

Dark Ray, you will find this interesting.  I don't know if you are familiar with

hulu.com , but they have some of the Basil Rathbone Holmes films as streaming video under the mystery section and I just saw a good film under the documantary section called "The Many Faces of Sherlock Holmes." 

It documents all the people who have played Holmes up to 1984.

I hope you get a chance to see it.

Number3 02 Aug 11 at 3:06 p.m. GMT

I was recently viewing a documentary on Absinthe and lo and behold another commedia spotting.

The Harlequin was featured on a poster for Pernod Absinthe.

Makes you wonder how many of Christie's favourite authors from childhood were Absinthe fueled. 

Number3 31 Jul 11 at 2:29 p.m. GMT

I've just had another commedia spotting.  I was watching "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" by Anne Bronte and spotted a Punch and Judy show.

Well, back to the Hemingway that I'm reading.

HarleyBarley 22 Jul 11 at 7:30 a.m. GMT

Jabberwocky is in Through the Looking-Glass, mind, not in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. The original illustrations are actually not that much, and the two stories themselves are short enough to fit together inside a relatively-small, 254-page book (excluding the few footnotes and excessive introduction). I suppose it was the annotations that overflowed. I rather dislike over-annotating books - they ruin some of the fun, much like explaining a joke would.

NightRayDuck 22 Jul 11 at 12:34 a.m. GMT

Oh! I look forward to the Jabberwocky verses. :D I suppose they are in an ok arrangement in the e-book edition that I got..

The printed book form that's available in my area is very thick and very long b/c it includes the Original Illustrations as well as Very Extensive Footnotes and Annotations. o.O

HarleyBarley 21 Jul 11 at 7:14 a.m. GMT

And I have returned! I might as well add that I am surprised this thread has advanced minimally; I thought I would have missed several pages!

@NightRay: Good to see you reading Alice! During my trip, I finally bought it in book form, mashed together in a marathon from Wonderland to Through the Looking-Glass, with a few footnotes and an excessively long publisher's introduction. It also has the original John Tenniel's illustrations. Quite nice to finally have it as a physical book I can hold, carry, and finger through, actually. And nice to see the Mouse's "Tail" and the first stanza of Jabberwocky printed the way they should!

Number3 14 Jul 11 at 2:06 p.m. GMT

I had another commedia spotting las night.  Harlequin suits were mentioned in "Mrs. Jordan's Profession: The Actress and The Prince" by Claire Tomalin.  Time for Regency era theater fun.

NightRayDuck 12 Jul 11 at 9:08 p.m. GMT

I'll look up the "My Name Is Paris" series, thank you! :D

By the way, London as city of *yellow* fog began during the early years of the Industrial revolution - manufactories all over the city - and with that, London became a central spot for the research into causes and symptoms of lung cancer and other cancers.

Last night, I started reading the Alice's Adventures in Wonderland e-book that I downloaded from Project Gutenberg. I read 7 chapters within one and a half hours, and already seemed to be half-way through the e-book. Wow! I am so glad that I'd been told about the e-book, and so avoided the expensive, heavy, tiny type on very many thin pages "Classic Literature" edition that's been on the U.S. market. :p

Number3 10 Jul 11 at 3:02 p.m. GMT

DarkRay, that is an interesting question about Verne.  If Holmes and he had met they would have be come wonderful friends. I shudder to think what would have happened if Verne and Morrarity had met and become friends. 

You might also like "My Name Is Paris" series by Elizabeth Howard.  It takes place in the same time frame but in the city of light instead of the city of fog.

NightRayDuck 10 Jul 11 at 1:53 a.m. GMT

Random question that's neither Christie nor Harlequin nor even Arthur Conan Doyle...

The volume of "Sherlock Holmes by other authors" that I've read a while ago contains rather many stories in which "Dr. John Watson" presents himself as a fan of H.G. Wells or even an acquaintance or friend. The volume is compiled by a publisher that mainly deals in fantasy and speculative fiction, so I suppose the editor might have ended up picking relatively more stories with sci-fi content and so, references to H.G. Wells. But why not Jules Verne or Edgar Allen Poe? I mean, was there some well-known adaptation, Holmes movie, or Holmes story written by some big name in early science fiction, that tagged H.G. Wells as an author that Watson loved reading? I couldn't find any such mention in the original Holmes tales by Conan Doyle (where there was reference to Edgar Allen Poe, in "A Study in Scarlet").

HarleyBarley 09 Jul 11 at 2:24 p.m. GMT

Thanks, NightRay! That I shall remember to do.

NightRayDuck 08 Jul 11 at 5:45 p.m. GMT

Have a good time with exams and family outing, Harley! :D

HarleyBarley 08 Jul 11 at 2:34 p.m. GMT

Apologies for vanishing recently; I might have to vanish again relatively soon, but this time I wish to take my leave first. It's a week-long disappearance, first for exams, then followed directly with a family outing. Will keep eyes peeled for Commedia references, as always.

LauraPoirot 04 Jul 11 at 8:04 p.m. GMT

Number3- it's really nice of you! Dido Kent? yes I'll see if I can read them in the summer holidays (only 4 weeks more) I'm sure your book-taste is great! And btw Reading would never make me burn out!

Number3 04 Jul 11 at 7:41 p.m. GMT

Laura-  you might enjoy the Dido Kent stories.  They are set in the Regency era and are very Christiesque. But most of all take your time with your reading.  We don't want you to burn out anytime soon.

Miss Quin-  I have a bunch of Bronte bios in my reading queue and I'm re-reading all of the sisters novels in order of publication.  Rather soon I'll be tackling Oxford's Complete Bronte's.  I also plan on re-reading "The Wide Sargasso Sea" by Jean Rhys.

MissQuin 04 Jul 11 at 9:16 a.m. GMT

Number 3- sounds good! But I have no time to read atm :(. In fact I won't be on here that much, I have plans for the summer. But you know I always love the villians in Austen! Admit I'm more fascinated by Jane Eyre and other Bronte's works. If I see a book about them, then I'll buy it!

Actually I haven't seen any commedia characters for days. Amazing how many we have seen!

LauraPoirot 03 Jul 11 at 8:07 p.m. GMT

Ah the other way around!

well I think I'll bow out of this disussion. I really have to read something else than AC.... the last 6 weeks i didn't do anything except reading Poirot novels ( I made 34 in this time, now I've read them all, except Curtain) Maybe I read the Doyle books, too.  But at the moment it's too much for me =)

NightRayDuck 03 Jul 11 at 7:05 p.m. GMT

Oh! Diaries of P&P characters? That's interesting! Reminds me of Bram Stoker's Dracula, where the chapters are all diaries, notes, and letters... well, as far as I have read, anyway. Need to get it back from some friend... o.O

I love "Valley of Fear". Any offense by Dr. Watson of "dwelling on sensational details", that Mr. Holmes often complains about, is more than redeemed by the second part of "Valley of Fear", which is a narration of a past case (which had already got solved) in its own right. :D

"Didn't You Kill My Brother" sounds like a whole lot of fun! And thanks for the bit about "Dressed to Kill"; now that is an incentive for me to look up Rathbone versions of Sherlock Holmes films. (I like to know at least a bit of the content before attempting to find a copy; the usual synopsis is often very vague.)

Number3 03 Jul 11 at 3:06 p.m. GMT

Laura-  Mr. Darcy's diary is a re-telling of the P&P story from Darcy's point of view.

Miss Quin- if you can get it from the library it's worth it.  The author, Amanda Grange, has two new Austenesque book out as well.  "Wickham's Diary" and the one I have been wating for "Mr. Tinley's Diary." Check out her website www.Amandagrange.com

Dark Ray- I'm also re-reading the Doyle stories as I can get them.  They are still very popular at the library and the waiting list is rather long.  Though I did find copies of "Memoirs" and "Valley of Fear" at a used book shop and they are now in my reading queue.

Miss Quin- I'm currently reading a interesting book related to P&P.  It's called "Flirting With Pride and Prejudice, Fresh Perspectives On The Original Chick-Lit Masterpiece.  So far it's rather interesting.

I do have some more commedia spotting.  DarkRay will love the first one.  It was a Harlequin painting in "Dressed To Kill."  a 1940's Universal Studios Sherlock Holmes film starring Basil Rathbone. 

The other spotting was from the Channel4 program "The Comic Strip"  It was in the episode "Didn't you kill my brother?"  In the opening scene there is a group of commedia figures dancing around.  This included Punch, Pierrot, Harlequin, and some other clowns.

An interesting question I thought I would pose, if AC wrote here Westmacott novels today, would they be categorized as Chick Lit?

LauraPoirot 01 Jul 11 at 6:46 p.m. GMT

well the school year's almost over and I'm actually done with this all =)  the worst mark I'll have in my school certificate is an C (in history) so I think I can accomplish it...

HarleyBarley 01 Jul 11 at 5:05 p.m. GMT

@Miss Quin: Well, I must admit I'm relieved I didn't upset you so. And now, well, I've no idea what else to say about it *blushes*

@Laura: Just don't forget to actually do the homework. Procastrination is a terrible problem for me, and it's quite the temptation to ignore the studies and go for the 'net.

@NightRay: Ah, but I think it's passive deception. You see, while I never claimed to be an adult male, when people call me with male pronouns or the like, I never pointed out that I am female. I intentionally obscured my gender and age, and almost encouraged others (like Miss Quin here) when they reached the wrong conclusion. While I never directly lied to them, I still consider it deceptive of me.

LauraPoirot 30 Jun 11 at 9:36 p.m. GMT

Yes NightRayDuck, that was also the thread I've seen HeisiHolmes first.

I agree, no one takes a minute which would disturb their day's planning. evrybody's running around and they've got to do anything... well it's a kind of infection and I'm also infected... I'm also busy with school  but I've got this site opened while I'm doing my homework =) 

NightRayDuck 30 Jun 11 at 8:02 p.m. GMT

@Miss Quin: "Any more shocks and surprises?" ?? Well, possibly, considering this is a forum full of mystery fans! :p

@Number3: Age is irrelevant, I agree. But I do like the idea of pension very much. I've been going through the original Sherlock Holmes stories, and I envy Watson every time he mentions his wound / army pension. :)

@Harley: I don't think it counts as deception; at least, I don't recall reading a comment from you claiming to be a male in their 20s. ;-)

@Laura: You commented on "Scariest Christie story?" thread, which was started by HeiseiHolmes. Haven't seen him back in quite a while, though. But besides TheButlerDidIt, there are also many other regular forum visitors who are doing something else and haven't been back in months - ivi21 and christie_greece are mostly busy with school, and we haven't seen Inspector_Grant, Pat_September, and PuffinJill in a month. Busy, busy lives! :D

LauraPoirot 30 Jun 11 at 3:27 p.m. GMT

Mhm... HeiseiHolmes, I think, I saw  some earlier comments of him... I looked around cause I knew the name and I could remember where I read it. I clicked on the profile and the latest comment was on the 5th November last year...

well for "rag Man" I didn't har that name before but I know the film Pride & Prejudice isn't it the adaption to Mr. Darcy's Diary?

ah Miss Quin you said  "I guess you could always send them a message." This is something I wanted to ask but I never got the chance... How do you contact any other members?

Regards!

MissQuin 30 Jun 11 at 3:18 p.m. GMT

Any more shocks and suprises?!

Harley Barley - I admit, I did think you were a male in their 20's. Well now I know, I will try not to say the wrong thing.

HeiseiHolmes and Butler haven't been here. I guess you could always send them a message. I liked getting their feedback on puzzles/stories.

Number 3 I'm glad to have you in these discussions! Age is irrelevant. Is Mr Darcy's diary good? I did see a copy, but alas I didn't buy it. I really didn't have room on the shelves for yet another book.

HarleyBarley 30 Jun 11 at 2:12 p.m. GMT

@Miss Quin: Now I feel like I had deceived you. Perhaps it might be best for me to make clear that I am a fifteen-year-old girl, as we go. I never intended to deceive you on that part, but when you assumed I was male, I - well - rather enjoyed it, for some reason. And now I apologise; I shouldn't have done that.

@Laura: When I first came here, I was your age, too. Back then there were two more people close to our ages... I wonder what happened to Shinichi and Butler? That is, HeiseiHolmes and TheButlerDidIt (back then, at least) - have you seen them here?

@Number3: No, don't worry about age. It's not even relevant to our discussion! Perhaps we should drop that subject here...

And no, no Commedia spotting for me yet. But who knows? Oh, some time ago there's a drawn picture of the Mad Hatter, from Alice in Wonderland, wearing a motley-patterned waistcoat. But I don't suppose it counts as a spotting when one made the picture oneself.

Number3 30 Jun 11 at 1:29 p.m. GMT

With everyone one revealing their ages it makes me feel like a pensioner.  Come join the benefit queue.

Laura commedia comes from Italy.  So it might have come over to Germany.  Does the "Rag Man"  still play a big part in German folklore?   If so "Rag Man" spotting is up for grabs.

I had two commedia spottings yesterday.  One in a documentary called "Two Spirits."  And the other was in one called "What Are Dreams."

Back to Mr. Darcy's diary by Amanda Grange.

LauraPoirot 29 Jun 11 at 6:44 p.m. GMT

At first I also thought you must be mature and worldy wise as Miss Quin said so aptly, but someday (I think it was a week ago...) I started to realise, that you could be as old as me, too! (btw I'm 14 but I think no one will be surprised about that)  I always say, peoople with this age are already fully developed!

Number3: sorry that I can't help you... I'm already overextandet with our German sites =)

MissQuin 29 Jun 11 at 11:06 a.m. GMT

15??!!!  I never would have it guessed Harley! Your sound so mature and worldy wise! Well I'm nearly 10 years older than you!

Number 3- thanks for the recap. I have seen Punch and Judy reference. I was reading a book on legends of England and Ireland. It mentioned a gytrash. I don't many people wolud know what that is. But a recap- if anyone has read Jane Eyre, she mistakes Pilot (Mr Rochester's dog) for a gyrash.

I decided to check on wiki if there was anything else. There's a list of  legendary creatures. One is "Spring Heeled Jack". I'd never heard of it, so I had to read it. Their were a number of attacks in London in the 1830's of a strange man like creature. It seems now it was a hoax, but it worked it's way into Punch and Judy shows for a short time.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring-heeled_Jack

Whoever was involved must have been very twisted, I mean dressing up as a demon and jumping on people?! It would make a good story though.. a whodunnit.

and I was watching a programme on history of seasides in England. Of course Punch and Judy made an appearance! I had no idea they still staged them in Modern day Britain.

HarleyBarley 29 Jun 11 at 8:34 a.m. GMT

@Number3: Sadly I have to say I don't know any reccomendations. However, I can say I've spotted a Harlequin in a ballet recently - it was just a photograph, though, and I don't remember what ballet it was, but he was there.

@Laura: I've used to frequent this site for quite some months, maybe even years, and yet I've never divulged those. However, I see no harm in doing it now. I started dancing as a child - I think about five or six years of age - and am still dancing by now. As for teaching, I haven't the slightest idea of the subject, but I can see myself as a teacher of something, be it ballet, music, or other things. And as for my age: I've been dancing for ten years now, which means I'm... fifteen. (Sorry, Miss Quin, I never told you earlier.)

Number3 28 Jun 11 at 5:04 p.m. GMT

I have been trying to find a website that is similar to fantasticfiction.co.uk but, it's for non-fiction.  Anyone have any recommendations?

Also I have another commedia spotting.  It the 1995 version of "Persuasion" there is a Harlequin in the circus parade.

For those of you not familiar with commedia spotting here is how it works:

The characters are Harlequin, Columbine, Pierrot, Pierette, Punch, Punchanella, and The Doctor.  The characters can be in any form of media,  books, films, songs, posters, jewellery, and so forth. 

When you see the character make a post. 

Good luck hunting

LauraPoirot 28 Jun 11 at 2:53 p.m. GMT

Harley,  Sorry but I've got to ask that now - How old are you?  And when did you start dancing?And what kind of teacher would you choose? sorry I'm so curious! But I think it's great if people are that sporty. I myself am not very sporty        =( I'm not like my friends who do sports for their weight (well, I think I should say I'm underweight, though I really do eat much!) But if people really enjoy their sports, this is really fantastic. Ballet must be really exhausting, or not?

HarleyBarley 28 Jun 11 at 1:26 p.m. GMT

Aheheh, thanks. I'm not a professional dancer yet, in all honesty. I am still in the middle of training, and I don't even aim to be a dancer - teacher, more likely. But thanks.

Number3 26 Jun 11 at 2:06 p.m. GMT

Harley, you made a cool life choice.  At one point in my life I was studying to be a ballet dancer and well accidents and bioglogy  happen. 

HarleyBarley 26 Jun 11 at 7:45 a.m. GMT

@Laura: Aheheh, no, I am not a clockmaker. The answer to your next question and to what I am is actually the same: I am a ballet dancer, and last year my two friends and I were assigned to choreograph our own short piece. I scourged around for appropriate music, and that is how I found many of the aforementioned tunes (we ended up using Italian Polka, by-the-bye).

@NightRay: Indeed, most music boxes have short tunes. But that idea at the end, about the tune that suddenly trails off into something completely different - I rather love that idea. Many songs I know do tend to be that way - starting in something, then suddenly changing drastically.

NightRayDuck 26 Jun 11 at 12:48 a.m. GMT

Humm.. all the music boxes that I have encountered in person played something less than 20 seconds in length. That is rather the exact reason that I chose Minute Waltz; the segment that I indicated is fast, with the last few notes reminding me of an Italian tune. The segment of Pachabel's Cannon in D that I mentioned has the most interesting overlap of the, well, the cannon. Yes, methodical madness is exactly what I was thinking for the multi-Harlequin music box, though I only looked for shorter tunes. Imagine the Harlequin figurines spinning in a circle, to an endless repetition of one tune that sounds upbeat but then again trails off into something else. :p

(Having slow internet connection at the moment. Will listen to the music clips later today.)

LauraPoirot 25 Jun 11 at 9:32 a.m. GMT

Sad, but you aren't a clockmaker, are you? However,where do you find all those great tunes? Italian Polka is again really nice to listen to! I hate it when it's over=). Actually I wanted to go to University to study psychology. But slowly you lead me astray! I'm gonna  do an apprentinceship as clockmaker ;-)

HarleyBarley 25 Jun 11 at 6:16 a.m. GMT

Very interesting, these music boxes. Makes me want to stroll down Portobello Road and pick up a few. Except for the fact that, well, I'm half a world away from Portobello, and in a land where even toy music boxes are scarce to boot! If I were a clockmaker, I would have built one myself...

LauraPoirot 24 Jun 11 at 4:16 p.m. GMT

@Harley: I can't remember the first music box I had but the one which played Happy birthday was without anything around it was only the "clockwork"... I can't really explain it but I found a picture: http://www.spieluhr.de/images/Produkte/spieluhren/Pics/4475-0018-spieluhr.jpg

@Number3: Believe me: The music boxes from Germany aren't as great as you may think . I've got to know it! Regards from Germany ;)

Number3 24 Jun 11 at 3:14 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn,  Yes I'm still commedia spotting.  I hope you are enjoying the Osborne book.  It's a wonderful reference book.

As for music boxes my mum promised me one that she got from Germany that played the theme from Gigi but, my niece destroyed it .  I do have one from my Gran that plays the "Gone With The Wind" theme.

HarleyBarley 24 Jun 11 at 4:38 a.m. GMT

@Laura: Interesting, isn't it? On both counts, that is; both the song and the music box similarities. My "musix box" was, I remember, in the shape of a mirror, or vanity set with a mirror on it. Inside the "drawer" was the clockwork (for lack of a better word - my mind fails me), and the mirror was just plastic with relfective paper stuck onto it, giving a most distorted image in return. But I did not mind at all; the music was soothing.

@NightRay: Minute Waltz is a good idea. Isn't it a tad bit fast, though? But of course, "fast" suits the Harlequin just fine. On an alternate idea, Polka Italienne, or Italian Polka? I'll see if I can find a version that shows what I mean. When all else fails, I'll just upload the one I used last year. It's a nice tune, with a slow and almost haunting beginning, an upbeat middle, and a nigh-chaotic end (which I tend to refer to as "methodical madness").

Ah, I found it. Apologies for my excessive linking lately beforehand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmSDDslA__M

NightRayDuck 24 Jun 11 at 3:05 a.m. GMT

My neighborhood internet connection has been flickering these past few days; I'll have to look up / listen to these clips some other time. :|

But I had been listening to some of my music clips, kinda the classics but in MIDI format (they were sample tracks on my first computer a decade ago), and in that format they sound really simple, just notes and barely identifiable as wind instrument, string instrument, or percussion. Anyhow, I think either of these portions of the classics might work well with the multiple-Harlequin music box:

Minute Waltz (Choplin's?), from apprx. 45 second to 1:00 minute.

Pachabel's Cannon in D, 1:38 to 1:50.

LauraPoirot 23 Jun 11 at 4:38 p.m. GMT

Oh it really sounds gloomy... *shiver* but somehow fascinating!

really, you had some kind of music box with Für Elise?! this is funny! Well, something like this I had too .. to crank... but it's mysteriously disappered... don't know where it's gone ... it played happy birthday =)

HarleyBarley 22 Jun 11 at 4:10 p.m. GMT

@Laura: Well, I've had that happen too. If you can find another version - it's simply called Flying on the Wings of Steam (no, it doesn't make sense, but it is Wonderland after all) - you might want to give it a burl. Not the remix, though - that's not in my usual forte, and is not the one I suggested (not music box-ish enough?). And, I used to have a music box sort of thing, not quite a box, but functioning similarly when the peg is turned. It played Fur Elise.

@Miss Quin: I did try going over all the Harlequin-spotting, but gave up due to sheer length. It was a dreadfully long time indeed! It feels nice to return to familiar ground...do we still hold mystery stories often? Oh, and I don't know Georges Barbier - perhaps one day?

MissQuin 22 Jun 11 at 1:04 p.m. GMT

I know this is going off topic- but then most of my comments are! But I love the scene in the b&w; film The Innocents. There's a musical box with Pierrot inside and he spins to a creepy rendition of "O Willow Waly", which is on you tube btw. I once had a discussion with a froend about novelty doorbells. We talked about which would be our favourites, I said Greensleeves, or Moonlough Shore. Or thinking about it, Poirot theme tune would be superb!! I think Bohemian rhapsody was suggested jokily- it might work though!? Harley- it has been too long. I think you missed all my Commedia spotting comments. I wondered if you like Georges Barbier? His subject matter is off interest too both of us :) Number 3- if your still playing commedia dell'arte spotting , I saw a photo of David Bowie- in his strange Pierrot garb!! Laura- nice to have a new person to the discussions.

LauraPoirot 22 Jun 11 at 11:33 a.m. GMT

Harley I really love musicboxes too. I had one when I was younger but it's broken =(. Now, since this discussion started, I'm looking the whole day for one to buy with a nice tune but I can only find those for children in the form of a cuddly toy which plays lullabys...

I wanted to listen to the link but guess what: This Video is not available in your Country! Of course Where else than in Germany!

Well I'll see if I can find something with the name of the game You've given!

HarleyBarley 22 Jun 11 at 6:11 a.m. GMT

Miss Quin. A great pleasure encountering you again. My, my...it really has been ages, one would say! I hope all is well with you.

Laura, I'm listening to the link, and I must say I rather like it. Then again, I am quite attached to music boxes in general. But the melody was soothing.

Related to the music box dialogue: I've a strange sort of fascination with the soundtrack of American McGee's Alice. Lots of music box tones, mixed with strange, nigh-atmospherical sounds of Victorian toys, violins, and the like, but the result is always a fascinating dark tune. I must warn that it's a horror game, and the soundtrack reflects that (sometimes subtly, sometimes not). Here's a track from it which I enjoy, especially the leitmotif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSn3f88x8&NR=1

Edit: Oh, and for the soundtrack: I must warn that the video uploader did not crop the song correctly, so there's a snippet of (potentially-startling) dialogue at the very end. After hearing it in several versions, I'm starting to think the startling dialogue is part of the song...

LauraPoirot 21 Jun 11 at 7:15 p.m. GMT

What do you think about this? It makes me dream somehow....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNiUgxk99Iw

MissQuin 21 Jun 11 at 3:35 p.m. GMT

I was away from the forum a few weeks so I'm well behind with this topic. But anyway, Harley, I'm delighted to see you here once more.

Music- I live for music and I have mentioned my tastes before. My music tastes are varied, but tends to be anything dark. Darkduck- I congratulated you on your superb taste in music. I've come across Theatre Of Tragedy when looking for Sins Of Thy Beloved, Tristiana and Leaves Eyes (I love them all atm).

I bought Charles Osbornes The Life And Crimes Of Agatha Chrisitie second hand, it was v cheap harback copy. I'm engrossed in the book. I'm v interested to read the Mr Quin sections of course! It mentions the film was drastically different from the book and featured snake wrestling and other oddities.

LauraPoirot 21 Jun 11 at 1:34 p.m. GMT

Just listening to one version of Greensleeves didn't know it before but it's beautiful! It's just taking me along for a voyage in another world.... hey how about five Harlequins just like Ray said and for each another version of the song. I also like the idea of Harley with the mirrors. I love the experience of seeing your picture in the mirror while it's reflected in a second mirror. Just like a house of mirrors at a funfair....

Number3 21 Jun 11 at 1:10 p.m. GMT

How about an out of tune version of Greensleeves?  It would reflect the different facets of Harlequin.

HarleyBarley 21 Jun 11 at 8:39 a.m. GMT

Five different Harlequins do indeed give a strange idea. Were they mirror-images cast by the illusive original? Were they his companions in disguise?

I've only ever heard few variations on Greensleeves, myself. It might do, if done properly.

NightRayDuck 21 Jun 11 at 6 a.m. GMT

Yep, I am thinking Harlequin is a bit eccentric, and a stage (on top of the music box) populated with 5 different Harlequins will be showing some very unusual Harlequinade.. ;-)

I thought of the Greensleeves tune, but I'd only heard several variations of the tune; I'll have to look up a good version of it. Otherwise, maybe a fast-paced tune of Scarborough Fair.

HarleyBarley 20 Jun 11 at 5:03 p.m. GMT

@NightRayDuck: Well, yes, put it simply, it is a ballet tune. Rather, one tune in the midst of the entire ballet, which is made a song on its own.

And regarding your question: since the music box described sounds a bit antique for me (at least, I see it in my imagination as antique), I'm more inclined for music gearing towards classical for it. Waltz might do, but other metres are not to be ignored. And Harlequins always strike me as a bit eccentric, hence my thinking that the music should reflect that.

@Laura: Quite an interesting song. I've heard a few Jason Mraz songs, but this one is new for me.

NightRayDuck 19 Jun 11 at 4:50 a.m. GMT

Harley - that's a great suggestion! That is, then, to speak simplistically, a ballet tune?

I wonder if we use a dance beat, waltz? tango? foxtrot? or anything else that strikes a chord with this music box, but "just one melody line with no harmonics, but the notes contain many accidentals (that is, sharps and flats) in a strange pattern. Or maybe it's played in a different mode, such as the Dorian or Phyrgian mode. " as Harley suggests.

I have a migraine attack at the moment so I can't figure out the fascinating beat that I've just heard on the stereo, whether it's a tango beat or a waltz beat. (Should I even call them "beat"? Maybe I mean "pace", or should it be "cadence"? Oh well...)

LauraPoirot 18 Jun 11 at 6:58 p.m. GMT

Now Harley I looked very long for something what is able to reach your song. I'm afraid to say I failed but here's something very different what I'd call a great song. I'd feel honoured if you listened to it! the best is the ending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsC7nq7wIvk

HarleyBarley 18 Jun 11 at 12:43 p.m. GMT

@Laura: Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. Personally, I love that song; it's a pity it's a bit hard to find people dancing to it nowadays (it's part of a ballet score, actually).

@Number3: Hello, old friend! Nice to "see" a familiar name here.

Number3 17 Jun 11 at 3:14 p.m. GMT

Hooray Harley is back .  Right now for music I have  Coldplay and Manfred Mann stuck in my head.

LauraPoirot 17 Jun 11 at 10 a.m. GMT

Hey Harley this is great! I just listened to it and it really fits to my imagination of the music box NightRayDuck described! It just explains the mood of the whole thing.

p.s.: somehow  the musicbox reminds me of the affair at the victory ball=)

HarleyBarley 17 Jun 11 at 9:22 a.m. GMT

That sounds like a very lovely music box - I can imagine it quite clearly now, and now I wish it existed! Well, I suppose I'd like the tune to be something simple but strange at the same time. No multiple notes, just one melody line with no harmonics, but the notes contain many accidentals (that is, sharps and flats) in a strange pattern. Or maybe it's played in a different mode, such as the Dorian or Phyrgian mode. Musical babble aside, Valse Bluette from Ricardo Drigo's Les Millions d'Arlequin will always make a good choice.

Oh, and feel free to just call me Harley, if the complete name is too long for comfort.

Edit: Valse Bluette, or one version thereof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYEJ0q98NzE

NightRayDuck 16 Jun 11 at 11:33 p.m. GMT

? My dear HarleyBarley, I don't think you've interrupted anything. This is the off-topic thread, after all. ;-)

On the subject of music as well as Harlequin (which for some reason seemed to have become the unofficial topic of the off-topic thread), I've been thinking about this since this morning. Let's say if we have a wind-up music box, the rotating top is adorned with several figurines of Harlequin-like costumes, but each figurine has a unique color scheme (say one figurine has diamond shapes of green and red, another figurine has diamond shapes of yellow and royal purple, etc). What kind of tune / music would you have in this music box? (Type of tune, or a specific tune; whichever comes to mind.)

HarleyBarley 16 Jun 11 at 8:54 a.m. GMT

Well, since I seem to have interrupted a musical discussion, I might as well join in. I don't have any particular favourite musician(s)... I do tend to favour jazz music, along with bits of many other things (from classical to eighties - really!). There are several jazz musicians I prefer, but aside from Michael Buble, the rest are rather obscure.

LauraPoirot 15 Jun 11 at 9:39 p.m. GMT

NightRayDuck, You're right one should probably read the comments before asking something what's already standing below... But thanks for your answer! I like some songs of Linkin Park, too, 'though it's actually not my kind of music.  I really love Colbie Caillat. well you may know her from radio she's got a new single and I can't wait 'til july! then her new Album will be released!

NightRayDuck 15 Jun 11 at 8:09 p.m. GMT

Hi there HarleyBarley! This is darknight but I changed my user name to nightrayduck b/c the way that Nofret abbreviated dark-night as DK always put me in mind of domesticated duck.. paddling or waddling around.. so cuuute. :)

@Laura - I believe MissQuin also has some comments on taste of music. Hmm. Well, I live in the U.S. where most people ask one about one's "favorite genre of music" and I always go with a gape and a "whaaaa you talkin' 'boout~~?"

I find "favorite singer / band" easier to answer. Hmm. The band "Theatre of Tragedy", the American rock/rap band "Linkin Park", hmm, and others, can't remember at the moment.

HarleyBarley 14 Jun 11 at 6:12 p.m. GMT

My goodness, it seemed to me that I have not been here for what felt like years! My sincere apologies for vanishing abruptly for such a time; my computer has had various problems, and I've been dreadfully busy also.

Wotcher, everyone? I hope all is well.

LauraPoirot 14 Jun 11 at 2:30 p.m. GMT

May I start another topic? Now, I know your taste is perfect in question of books but how about music? I'd like to know what music AC fans like. Have you any favourite singer/band? 

Number3 07 Jun 11 at 1:46 p.m. GMT

Miss Quin, I've seen both versions of NA.  The 80's verson is ok but it has a cheesy 80's metalish soundtrack.

I haven't seen the 2005 version of P&P.  The version of P&P with Laurence Oliver was a bit silly. It re-used costumes from "Gone With The Wind" instead of period dress.

The 1970's verson of "Persuasion" was very good.  One of the big stars was Morag Hood, an actress that has done many period pieces.

Looks like my last commedia posting went missing.  In "Shaun Of The Dead"  there was a Harlequin poster in one of the character's apartments.

MissQuin 30 May 11 at 10:51 a.m. GMT

No I've not seen that version of Pride and Prejudice. It's hard as all other versions look pale compared the 1995 version. Its as near to perfection that you'll ever get!

I have seen some of the 2005? version of P&P.  It felt rather lacking in substance. Maybe because it was shortened. To tell the story properly, it really needed to be longer.

I've seen most the recent Jane Austen adapts.  Persuasion is good, forget what year. Rupert Penry Jones was in it. Northanger Abbey (with JJ Feild) was good in parts, in other it deviated too much from the book. That's one of my favourite Austen books because the creepy Gothic abbey appeals to me so much! I know there's an older version of NH, but do you know if it's any good? which version have you seen Number 3?

I had to give up on the 2009 Emma. There was too many things that annoyed me. Emma's voice sounded so babylike and affected, it drove me to turn down the volume control!!

I haven't seen a Harlequin for a week!!  

Number3 29 May 11 at 3:32 p.m. GMT

I have another commedia spotting.  I was watching a documentary on origami, called "In Between The Folds," and one of the folders had made  Harlequin and Columbine models.  The looked rather nifty.

Miss Quin, have you seen the 1985 version of "Pride and Prejudice?" I view it again this past weekend.  It's a good film but, the 1995 version outshines it.

NightRayDuck 26 May 11 at 10:28 p.m. GMT

I don't know of many Nutcracker performances that encourage audience participation in the US..

I ought to look up the Radio City Music Hall.

Number3 26 May 11 at 2:15 p.m. GMT

The usual Christmas "panto" in the states is the Nutcracker even though it's classified as a ballet.

Also, the big extravaganza at Radio City Music Hall is a panto.

NightRayDuck 26 May 11 at 3:01 a.m. GMT

oooh.. I read both your comments, Miss Quin and Tommy, and also the traditional characteristics and the main roles in the wikipedia article. Slapstick with Romance and Good v. Evil. Adapted story from fairy tale, adapted song from known songs. Audience participation. This really is a whole lot of fun! I hope I'll get to see one some day.

The article says there are a few theatrical or amateur companies in the U.S. that perform pantomimes, I suppose so, but, indeed, it's not simply that the Americans might confuse the terms "pantomime" and "mime", it is that around Christmas time, Americans seem embarassed if they promote any performance other than the "Nativity Scene" (for its religious content) or the "Santa's Grotto" (for its commercial, customer-attracting quality). 

Tommy_A_Jones 25 May 11 at 4:01 p.m. GMT

Pantomimes are Plays that all the Family can see, they are Good Verses evil with a Romance The Baddies get thwarted and the Leading Lady gets to marry the Leading Man who is usually the Dam's Son,  It is years since I saw a Panto where the Princible boy is played by a Girl (Apart from the one my sister takes part in but the Pro ones have had Men playing the Male Lead) The Part of the Dame is still tradtionally played by a Man, It would take a particular type of woman to carry off llaying a Dame, I believe Peggy Mount did when she was alive and I bet Dawn French could but I wouldn't choose to see a Panto with a Dame played by a woman, it would just be wrong.

MissQuin 25 May 11 at 3:38 p.m. GMT

It's ok, I said it jokily. If anyone else told me they saw 3 commedia dell'arte in one weekend, I'd be a little doubtful! The problem is seeing one in a public place, it's tempting to point

I reckon if you asked most people in Britian who Harlequin etc are they coludn't tell you. But I think they'd recognise the images of them.

Christmas pantomines- yes affectionatley known as pantos here! I went to see Cinderella as a young child, I still remember it. They've been held for over 100 years and there's no sign of it diminishing. It's popular with adults and children.

I think every county will hold them over the Christmas period. I think (not certain) they hold in October til January. It's very hard to describe them, they just sound so odd in writing! I think every county in England holds a panto at this time. It might be a small village hall, or it might be a threatre with famous names appearing.

Usually fairytales are acted out, The humours is a mix of jokes, double entendres and slapstick. The Principal boy is usually female and the Panto dame is Male.

I'm wondering if the word Pantomime is shorten version of Pantaloon Mime? who knows.  more details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime

does that explain it a little better? There's probably some youtube videos too.

NightRayDuck 25 May 11 at 6:46 a.m. GMT

? My dear Miss Quin, of course I am not doubting your words, esp. concerning the power of commedia dell'arte characters!  What I meant was: in the US, people who had never heard of commedia dell'arte could say to themselves, ah! that harlequin pattern, yes, it's that exotic and amazingly dizzy pattern which we see occasionally, especially about the time of certain Hispanic holidays~ 

all modern evolution and merger of the classical characters aside (which are very interesting information in and of themselves), my next question is: Christmas pantomines? I've never seen or heard an announcement of one taking place in the US. Is it a regular item in the UK for the holiday?

MissQuin 24 May 11 at 3:50 p.m. GMT

Sorry I've not been here for a few weeks. But it doesn't look like I missed much!

NightRayDuck

 I don't know of any particular reason that Harlequin and associated characters would make lots of appearances in the U.K. at this time.

Are you doubting my word Duckie?! You underestimate Harlequin!  The magazines in question were- among my specialist interests- a home decor mag with a business called Harlequin! It sells curtains and homewares. The other magazine was a colectables one which featured a beautiful Swarovski crystal Harlequin. If I ever come into some money, I'd buy the whole set of those! and I saw a Pierrot in an artist magazine in an Altered Art collage.

It's become known to me that Commedia dell'arte has insidiously crept into modern day British culture.. I didn't realise until I started the spotting game! There's a hair salon near me called Harlequin hair studios, I went on holiday a Harlequin art gallery, Harlequin cafes' etc. Then our TV programmes have featured various characters, there's a long list. Music videos, shops, home decor, clothes, it's pretty much everywhere if you look for it.

Maybe because Harlequin appears in Christmas pantomines, the legends kept going? Or the Punch and Judy shows that have been held even in my childhood. Maybe because of a reference in Shakespeare? or maybe Agatha Christie has had some part in keeping Harley Quin in.

I've sometimes seen Harlequin wearing Pierrot's pointy hat. I think that the characters have blurred rather. I think Mr Punch and Pantalone have merged at times with doctor.

NightRayDuck 24 May 11 at 4:13 a.m. GMT

commedia spotting..

another online game is having a "visit Venice" episode, with bonus from collecting a set of commedia dell'arte masks. the Pantalone mask in the game is black with a very long nose. I thought the long nose design was for the doctor, to ward off plague and bad air?

Number3 23 May 11 at 7:10 p.m. GMT

What is with all this crazy spam as of late?

I had some commedia spotting.

In the 1995 version of "Old Curosity Shop" there are Punch and Judy shows.

I was watching a documentary about Dragon Con and there was a person dressed up as Harley(?) Quinn. 

NightRayDuck 22 May 11 at 6:37 a.m. GMT

umm hmm.. no Harlequin spotting or anything spotting to report today.

I finished reading my volume of "Improbable Adventures of Sherlock Holmes". It's a volume of Sherlock Holmes short stories written by other authors. Some of the stories were written by horror, fantasy, or science fiction writers and yet adhered to all mystery "rules" and no supernatural / speculative element at all, very impressive. Some of the stories work out fine as mysteries if the reader would accept only one "un-scientific" element per story, like stray dinosaurs in one, extraterrestrials in another. But some of the stories by well-known mystery writers were incredibly boring! Esp. Anne Perry's "The Adventure of the Bloodless Sock", having Dr. Watson always delaying several hours before interviewing the much-distressed kidnapping victim.. It's as though Ms. Perry held back the former army surgeon just so to create a story where Holmes could solve the case upon only two pieces of evidence. It is not admirable at all. 

NightRayDuck 16 May 11 at 9:47 p.m. GMT

I wouldn't say that I have a taste for anything in particular, but I get easily bored with stories which go on and on - small happy event and the characters are ecstatic for the next 4 pages - small set back and the characters moan and pout and sulk and throw tantrums for the next 9 pages. When I have eliminated all the un-enjoyable, then the remaining must be consulted for entertainment. :p I don't know of any particular reason that Harlequin and associated characters would make lots of appearances in the U.K. at this time. For the U.S., it started with the Mardi Gras festivity of the Hispanic communities, the diamond-shapes-of-alternating-colors design of some of the Mardi Gras decorations.. Well, we can always do a Monster / Mythical Critter Spotting? I've been re-reading the original Sherlock Holmes stories, and I find it very amusing that some reviewers say that the "Speckled Band" swamp adder is pure fiction. It's only the color described that was different, and we could always put that down to Dr. Watson being sleepy when he saw it.. toxicity and symptoms of victim were quite accurate.

MissQuin 16 May 11 at 8:30 p.m. GMT

My tatses are quite proziac actually. Not very grostesque. I'm drawn to Gothic, but then I just like that for reasons unknown.

Seen lots Pierrots/harlequin's over the weekend in magazines. Honestly wish I'd never mentioned spotting them! It's doubled since I jokliy suggested it!

NightRayDuck 16 May 11 at 4:56 a.m. GMT

Hm well, I am of Oriental blood and like several generations of my ancestors I was born in Asia and there I spent a few years of my childhood. A very superstitious society. In that environment, it's rather a relief to see creepy, spooky, grotesque, or weird events and know for certain that this particular narrative is mostly fictional. 

Number3 15 May 11 at 2:46 p.m. GMT

Miss Quin, the TOTU are wonderful.  If you get a chance to see them by all means do.

I love the little twists at the end of the stories.  I have never though of the stories as creepy.  But then again as I was growing up my mum read me the uncensored Grimm tales and my father had a soft spot for H.P. Lovecraft.

Picture a 3 year old listening to "The Dunwich Horror" and looking at "The Dream In The Witch House AKA Curse of the Crimson Cult on T.V.

My familly got me into the bizzare at a very early age.

How about everyone one else? 

Were you introduced by your family or did you come to it on your own?

NightRayDuck 14 May 11 at 4:34 a.m. GMT

in the original Sherlock Holmes short story, "The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans", a foreign agent communicates to possible secret-seller using the agony column of some newspaper. The foreign agent signs these communications "PIERROT".

MissQuin 11 May 11 at 3:27 p.m. GMT

Wow, that's a lot of Pierrots!  I have read two TOTU stories, both were creepy and unsettling! Interesting though, I'd read more. But I've never seen the TV adapts. are they good?

I've seen a Fool in a magazine the other day. Plus a litte jester, I know not strictly part of CDDA. But I have seen another Pierrot in a you tube video for the group Dark Sanctuary.

Number3 11 May 11 at 2:40 p.m. GMT

More commedia spotting.

I was watching "Tales of The Unexpected and saw things in two episodes.  In "Never Speak Ill of The Dead" there was a Poirot costumes.  In another episode "Kindly Dig Your Grave" there was a Poirot dolly, a Poirot painting, and a painting of Harlequin and Poirot.

MissQuin 10 May 11 at 4:56 p.m. GMT

Yes it is, quite crazy but the timing is down to perfection. The Marx Bros were very talented. I wonder what a murder mystery spoof would have been like with those four? I can only imagine.

NightRayDuck 08 May 11 at 11:40 p.m. GMT

Duck Soup of 1933? It looks like a lot of fun..

MissQuin 08 May 11 at 4:01 p.m. GMT

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Shadow Of A Doubt spoilers- I like Cary Grant. He delivers witty one liners to perfection. But I think Jospeh Cotton is best in his role. He brings a really dark edge to the film, which is what was needed. The wholesome young niece faced with somthing she can hardly handle or comprehend. There seemed to be an almost incestrous element to their relationship.  I can't imagine Grant pulling that off too well. Plus he agents probably wouldn't have let him, if you read about Suspision. They didn't want his image ruined.

On the subect of ducks once more!! Duck soup- has anyone else seen it? I was in stitches, I just loved it.

Number3 08 May 11 at 3:49 p.m. GMT

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"Shadow" is a brilliant film.  Just think of what it would have been like with Carry Grant in the main role instead of Joseph Cotton.

MissQuin 05 May 11 at 2:45 p.m. GMT

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I've heard that theory in Bayards book, but it doesn't make sense to rewrite the end does it? If you can rewrite a Chrisitie novel then you could do that to any book. But then it wolud be better discussed under ackroyd topic.

HQ spotting- I've seen a fair few Punch and Judy show images this week, in films or internet. Plus I saw a Pierrot child on a mixed media site. Plus I saw a Pierrot sheet music piece whilst out shopping for vintage pieces. I probably would have bought it, but it was olny the cover and the music had gone! Funny how I never look for these chaarcters and they pop up when I least expect them!

On another suubject, I watched Shadow Of A Doubt this week. It was a fantastic film and I think (SPOILERS!!!) it had my favourite villian, so seemingly charming, yet simmering with hatred underneath.

Number3 05 May 11 at 2:18 p.m. GMT

I recently finished "Who Killed Roger Ackroyd" by Pierre Bayard.  If you like psychology it is good study.  Otherwise I didn't find it very helpful.

It is full of spoilers and Bayard's theory of who the murdere really is interesting.

Number3 03 May 11 at 1:29 p.m. GMT

I finished the Sanders and Lovallo book.  Aside from the lists in the back it was awful. So please save your sanity and skip it.

I did read "The Agatha Christie Mystery" by Derrick Murdoch.  I is a very well written work. It came out just before "Autobiography."  There are some wonderful bonuses in this book.  There is an AC portrait by Lord Snowdon and a reprint of the "Elegy For Agatha Christie" by Pamela Stewart.

It might be hard to find, but give it a try.  The ISBN# is 0-88932-034-9

On the topic of Harlequin spotting.  I saw the first episode of "South Riding" and spotted something.  During the dance recital scene there was a girl in Harlequin pants and her partner was wearing a Columbine-esque costume.

NightRayDuck 30 Apr 11 at 5:02 a.m. GMT

oh I forgot to explain about the "Welsh Harlequin" breed of domestic duck. the color scheme, i.e. which area is green and so on, is like wild Mallard, but the "fading" is not a uniform dimming of color all over the body, but rather there are streaks of nearly white, sort of dividing the colors into patches of diamond shapes.. I guess that's why the breeders felt "Harlequin" a right name for the breed.

NightRayDuck 30 Apr 11 at 12:07 a.m. GMT

MissQuin - spoiled for choice?? That reminds me, Night Duck is also quite an acceptable nickname. 

"Hickory Dickory DUCK"? that sounds like a good idea. or perhaps a good culinary recipe. 

NightRayDuck 30 Apr 11 at 12:02 a.m. GMT

Number3 - I am afraid I have a very elementary vocabulary when referring to birds; when I use the word "duck" in general conversation outside of ornithological discussions, I think of the domestic ducks and their wild ancestor the Mallard, which, it seems, excepting the domestic "Muscovy Duck", are all various breeds of the same species as the Mallard.

..mind floating off.. ~~duck duckedly ducky duck~~ 

NightRayDuck 29 Apr 11 at 11:55 p.m. GMT

on to Harlequin-spotting first! that is, based on the classifications currently agreed among wikipedia contributors, and photos that can be found in google images.

"Welsh Harlequin", breed of domestic duck, thus descendant of the Mallard species, and member of the Anas genus, some of the dabbling ducks; coloration of a faded Mallard.

"Harlequin Duck", a.k.a. "painted duck", a sea duck in genus Histrionicus; coloration like military uniform for ceremonial occasions, very solid color, several bright lines at the seams.

both the Anas and the Histrionicus, as well as the "Mandarin duck" which is a perching duck of the genus Aix, belong in the Anatidae family of wholelottawaterbirds including ducks and geese and swans~~ wow. who knew. 

MissQuin 29 Apr 11 at 4:13 p.m. GMT

I've not had a chance to watch Emma 2009?. I might do on sunday. I can remember the 2 versions I've seen quite clearly, because they were quite different. I loved the film version with Gwyneth Paltrow. Maybe because I wasn't expecting it to be good. But it was charming. Jeremy Northen was an excellent Mr Knightly.

But I thought the Andrew Davies version of Emma 1997 was poor. Emma (Kate Beckingsale?) came across as very arch, too emotional and sarcastic. Wheras in the book she seems flippant, playful but calm. I can't remember who played Mr Knightley but he was so unlike his books character. He was brooding, sullen, moody to the point of being in a fit of sulks the whole time. The final scene had the turkeys being stolen! It didn't seem the right thing for a closing sequence.

I'm sure the Romala Gari version is better than the 1997 drama.

I think I'll avoid that book your reading Number 3. I like AC references but that one sounds dreary.

I'm not sure what to call you Night Ray Dick. I'm spoiled for choice! Now I keep thinking of the time I put Hickory Dickory Duck and had to correct it  

I'm missing Harley Barley btw, I'm waiting for him to appear.

Number3 28 Apr 11 at 1:26 p.m. GMT

Dark Ray what is your favourite species of duck?  My favourite happens to be the Mallard.  There is a near by canal that has over ten species and some of the hybridization is rather interesting.  Yes I'm an Ornithology nut. 

Miss Quin if you are talking about the version of Emma with Romala Gari(sp?), it is a wonderful adapt.  Though after a while all the different versions get muddled in you head.

Reading the Sanders/Lovallo book is like pulling teeth from a hamster.  In one of the commentaries they list Poirot as being the main detective in "The Mirror Crack'd From Side To Side."  Too many inconsistencies in this clunker of a guide. So GK I second you on portions of you statement.

Maybe the Christie estate should get John Curran to write a more up to date guide.

NightRayDuck 27 Apr 11 at 10:12 p.m. GMT

I feel quite certain that my user name came from somewhere in my own brain,  but if you'd like to know the way that my thoughts ferreted around my brain to assemble this user name - they went like this:

"DK", while an understandable abbreviation for "dark" (first and last consonants), resonates with "duck" - favorite waterfowl. Flash mental pictures of ducks going around on water surface. Am distracted from discussions. To counter such distractions: place "duck" in own user name, so that mental pictures of ducks are gone thru the first moment the brain registers own user name! 

I remember Darkwing Duck, although I only had the opportunity to watch apprx. 5 episodes, I think.

It's fine to call me Duck, or Duckie, or Nightie, or Raydy or Dark Ray or any such.. but I'd prefer not to see the abbreviation NRD. "NRD" has already started to put me in mind of "nerd", a label which, while I happily identify with, isn't going to make as fun a user name as something about ducks. 

MissQuin 27 Apr 11 at 2:07 p.m. GMT

NightRayDuck- what shall we call you now? Duckie?  or NRD. That kind of reminds me of Dark Wing Duck, a cartoon from my youth. If you too young to remember:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkwing_Duck

It had a great theme tune, or at least I thought so when I was about 5! There was an episode called Darkly Dawns The Duck which reminded me. Now I'm very off topic! where did your user name come from? I'm curious.

I might watch Jane Austen's Emma in the week, then recent mini serires. The parts I've seen havent looked that good, so I'm hoping it's better than what I anticipate.

GKCfan 26 Apr 11 at 11:25 p.m. GMT

I'm familiar with Sanders and Lovallo.  It's a fairly useful guide to characters and the summaries are helpful, but there are some errors and by now it's incomplete, and I don't agree with all of their critical comments, but compared to some other guides to Christie's work it's one of the better books.

NightRayDuck 26 Apr 11 at 8:09 p.m. GMT

..like so.

ta-daa! :D

NightRayDuck 26 Apr 11 at 8:05 p.m. GMT

Being even more off-topic than my usual off-topic self.. I've decided to change my user name to Night Ray Duck..

NightRayDuck 26 Apr 11 at 7:56 p.m. GMT

I haven't read that one. I've only read "The Complete Christie: An Encyclopedia" etc etc by Matthew Bunson, and it was a very INCOMPLETE guide, indeed. The more I hear about differences between the US editions and the UK editions of the novels, the more I feel certain that the many mistakes in this alleged "Complete Christie" refer to neither the US editions nor the UK editions, but rather to various adaptations watched by assistants in all-day adapt-watching runs and the reviews written up at 3 a.m.

Number3 26 Apr 11 at 2:36 p.m. GMT

I've started reading "The Agatha Christie Companion" by Dennis Saunders and Len Lovallo.  Published in 1984.  So far I'm not to impressed with it. But I will finish it to see what the authors have to say.

So far out of all the Christie guides that I have read, I still prefer the Osborne book.

Has anyone else read "The Agatha Christie Companion?"

MissQuin 25 Apr 11 at 9:54 a.m. GMT

I hadn't even considered what the rest of the world thinks of the Royal wedding. Because I confess I have no interest in it myself. I'm not a Royalist, in fact I'm the opposite. So I'm doing my best to avoid it, although living in Britian it's proving impossible! Even the shops are full of items. So the only way I could escape it is to lock myself in bunker for weeks

Or maybe on the actual day I'll wacth a Hitchcock film or Poirot or something that isn't anything remotely to do with Royal wedding. But I hope you enjoy it, if you can stay up at 5.30 am.

Onto Commedia dell'Arte again!! I was watching a Mark Brother's film Monkey Business. There was a Punch and Judy show. Then later a fancy dress party, with soemone who was like a Pierrot/Harlequin cross. He had the motley but the cone hat! And some Pierrot types complete with pom-poms. Those CDA pop up when I least expect it!

Number3 24 Apr 11 at 3:34 p.m. GMT

I'm debating if I'm going to get up a 5:30am EST to watch the wedding. 

I can still remember my mum getting me up for Charles's and Diana's wedding thirty years ago.  We all had our cornflakes and tea in front of the T.V.

Number3 21 Apr 11 at 2:35 p.m. GMT

I finished part two of "His Dark Materials- The Subtle Knife." 

I thought it was a wonderful part of the story.  I still have 3 more parts to go.  The beginning of part three starts in Tibet.  I can't wait to read more.

Maybe there will be more Commedia spotting in this one.

MissQuin 21 Apr 11 at 9:48 a.m. GMT

I was looking online at vintage and retro earrings and there were some Pierrot ones. They were pretty scary looking! I sually see Commedia dell'Arte on a weekly basis! Never do I look for them, they just turn up! Rather like Mr Quin. ; )

I watched an old classic film last night called Sunset Boulevard. It was pretty sublime and unsetttling, but I still enjoyed it.

NightRayDuck 20 Apr 11 at 4:31 a.m. GMT

Some serious Harlequin-spotting.. I play some of those virtual-pets games online, one of these have in-game items that are virtual plushies, some of the recent ones are "Harlequin the Witty", "Columbina the Lovely", and "Pantalone the Old". I don't think they've come out with the other Commedia dell'Arte roles, though.

Number3 19 Apr 11 at 2:25 p.m. GMT

Darknight I have a friend that is from Malaya and she first read them in Chinese as well.  Then latter on she got them in English.

I have found another mention of "Commedia" in "His Dark Materials."  In chapter six of "The Sutble Knife"  strolling "Commedia" players are mentioned.

NightRayDuck 17 Apr 11 at 8:59 p.m. GMT

When I started reading Agatha Christie, the edition I could get hold of were in Chinese. There were some odd translations, by the way. I think it might have been the case that Elephants Can Remember had never been published in that collection because the editors could not think of a decent translation for the title. 

Number3 17 Apr 11 at 8:30 p.m. GMT

I finished "Northern Lights" and throughly enjoyed it.  Currently I'm reading "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies Dreadfully Ever After."  I hope to have it finished rather soon.

Miss Quin there was a Punch and Judy show in the most recent version of "Old Curosity Shop."  I just rembered that when you mentioned "Oliver Twist."

Darknight I hope you don't mind me asking, but what language did you first read the stories in?

NightRayDuck 17 Apr 11 at 8:19 p.m. GMT

I see..

GKCfan 17 Apr 11 at 7:48 p.m. GMT

Well, the Nile River clearly wasn't enough to disturb him in Death on the Nile.  That was a large boat in a calm river.  In Evil Under the Sun, he makes it very clear that a tiny one-person rowboat a few dozen yards from land would make him sick.  He can take the rowing journey across the bay from the old Crale place to the Blake estate in Five Little Pigs without too much complaint.  Every ocean voyage he takes bothers him.

MissQuin 17 Apr 11 at 10:35 a.m. GMT

Well GKC would know. I can't remember if Poirot went for a row on a lake. I don't think he did. He may have traveled down a river at one stage.

NightRayDuck 17 Apr 11 at 1:11 a.m. GMT

I got a question after searching Poirot's Death on the Nile for an answer to GKC's latest AC Quiz.. Poirot dislikes being in a boat upon the waves of a sea. I don't remember whether he objects also to a boat in a river or a lake. Does he?

NightRayDuck 17 Apr 11 at 1:09 a.m. GMT

My US edition of "The Regatta Mystery and Other Stories" contains quite a few Poirot stories and Marple stories, two Parker Pyne stories, and one supernatural/psychic story ("In A Glass Darkly"). I'll only comment on the Parker Pyne stories b/c I'd guess those are the ones that MissQuin likely hasn't read.

The Parker Pyne stories are:

"The Regatta Mystery", a very clever jewel robbery committed in the midst of the busy and noisy Regatta occasion. One of the involved parties consults Mr. Parker Pyne.

"The Problem at Pollensa Bay", Mr. Parker Pyne continuing his vacation in foreign lands and attempting to not take up a client whatsoever. He ends up in his usual scheme of bringing happiness to clients, still.

They are fun stories.. not a whole lot of mystery to solve.

MissQuin 16 Apr 11 at 9:37 a.m. GMT

I was watching Oliver Twist, the old b&w 40's version. There was a Punch and Judy show! That was a good version actually. The scene where Oliver is forced to sleep amongst the coffins was suitably eerie.

Oh and I watched The Lady-killers this week. Wickedly funny film. The little old lady in it wolud have made a fabulous Miss Marple.

Number3 12 Apr 11 at 1:46 p.m. GMT

I just had another Harlequin spotting.  It was in "Northern Lights" by Phillip Pullman.  In the American edition that I'm reading on page 67 Lyra sees Harlequin figures in Mrs. Coulter's flat.

So Miss Quin you are correct in saying that the Commedia figures turn up in the strangest places.

NightRayDuck 11 Apr 11 at 8:49 p.m. GMT

Number3- Thanks muchly for the reading-order reminder. As a matter of fact, I had read most of the Poirot novels when I was an itty bitty little kid, so my own memory supplies spoilers randomly while I read them again in English nowadays. Also, there are references to other Poirot stories, or small spoilers (such as in Dumb Witness, the list of "pleasant personalities" who were criminals from Poirot's past cases) that do not enlighten me at all when I read it now.

I think there are just a few Poirot novels left that I hadn't read in any language.. Death in the Clouds, Elephants Can Remember, Mrs. McGinty's Dead, and possibly Murder on the Links. Of these four, Elephants Can Remember best suits my current interest, and seeing that my memory serves up random spoilers anyway, I figure I'd go ahead and read it.

MissQuin 11 Apr 11 at 3 p.m. GMT

wow Number 3- are you finding creepy how these C D A characters keep popping up?!

 Mardi Gras parade- famous for Harlequin. Odd that it was Pierrot.

Number3 10 Apr 11 at 1:56 p.m. GMT

I had a Commedia dell'Arte spotting in a very odd film.  I was watching "Swamp Diamonds" by Roger Corman.  There was a scene during a Mardi Gras parade that featured a whole Krew dressed as Pierrot.

It's been a while, but I did enjoy reading "Regatta."

Dark Ray. Please be mindful of what order you read the stories in. Some books have spoilers to previous stories.

Also, if you haven't read the Osborne book it will be very helpful to you.

MissQuin 10 Apr 11 at 10:15 a.m. GMT

On the subject of HQ spotting. I like some of the artwork by Georges Barbier. I looking through images and behold! A Harlequin :) There's quite alot of HQ and also pierrot crops up. I wonder if Harley has seen them?

I've not read the Regatta Mystery, please tell us if it's any good. I still haven't got round to reading Crooked house. I've had projects to work on.

NightRayDuck 10 Apr 11 at 12:47 a.m. GMT

I just got my "The Regatta Mystery and other stories" book. It's a surprisingly slim volume. 

NightRayDuck 10 Apr 11 at 12:43 a.m. GMT

in other news, and being quite contradictory of my post above, I hope to try reading Christie's Elephants Can Remember, for no more and no less reasons than to 1) see if the "reminiscences" are as well planned and well presented as those in Five Little Pigs, and 2) see if I can catch whoever is hiding some terrible secret in that story. I see many complaints about Elephants Can Remember being rambling and full of contradictory statements. I thought that was the whole point of the story... and same thing as found in Five Little Pigs. 

NightRayDuck 10 Apr 11 at 12:39 a.m. GMT

I looked through some reviews of Phillip Pullman's books. The contents seem to be even more complex (and potentially confusing if I don't pay attention while I read) than any science fiction or fantasy that I had read upon recommendations. Too much work to read.. 

MissQuin 09 Apr 11 at 10:48 a.m. GMT

Number 3- I read Northern Lights. It wasn't my type of book, I was so bored I gave up. It's a shame I don't like his books. because I colud enjoy the adapts of Sally Lockheart mysteries. They have a fair bit of male eye candy, so I hear

Number3 08 Apr 11 at 6:38 p.m. GMT

Who here has read "His Dark Materials" by Phillip Pullman?  I have just started "Northern Lights" in a budget American edition.

I've read all the Sally Lockheart's and thoroughly enjoyed every page.

NightRayDuck 08 Apr 11 at 6:25 a.m. GMT

yep "Identity" is a good film. and yep I love the ending. also, I much enjoy the way that the film provides the necessary clues at various points during the action, including the very beginning, and nearly to the very end. and none of the clue showed up by being pointed out by a character as "OMG that is soooo weird!! it must mean ..such such.. and ..this that.. ~~" The clues were all there for the viewers, but perhaps not all clues were available to any single character. and one could even figure out how come none of the characters had all of the clues available. it's fun exercise for the little grey cells. 

MissQuin 07 Apr 11 at 4:24 p.m. GMT

Sounds a good film.

Onto Commedia dell'Arte spotting. I saw a card yesterday with Pierrotette!! I wasn't even looking. Sepaking of clowns, I saw a trailot for Dr Who and there were some very scary looking clowns!! Anyone with clown phobia sholud avoid that one.

Number3 07 Apr 11 at 1:21 p.m. GMT

I enjoyed "Identity."  I like to watch it every so often and, everyone I show it to gets addicted.  I think of it as a cult film.

Dark Ray don't you just love the ending.

NightRayDuck 06 Apr 11 at 2:40 a.m. GMT

hmm..

in other news and being quite off-topic, I have just watched a movie called "Identity" (2003, dir. James Mangold). although the newspaper review reprinted on the box makes it sound very much like a modern and accidental "And Then There Were None", the movie is in fact a psychological thriller, not a murder mystery. I enjoyed it, nevertheless, and I recommend it to the attention of mystery fans who find themselves annoyed by stories told by dishonest or careless narrators.

(I think this movie is a good exercise in "when not to believe what's shown on the big screen", and "when to be skeptical about the comments made by the character that's an expert and a professional".)

GKCfan 03 Apr 11 at 9:34 p.m. GMT

Read this thread and the links, darknightofrays: http://www.agathachristie.com/forum/have-your-say/television-and-film/the-latest-atrocity/

NightRayDuck 03 Apr 11 at 9:21 p.m. GMT

I just looked up the carousel scene on Youtube... I had seen that scene on telly a long time ago. Strangers on a Train... I think I'd also seen another scene in one of my school classes, can't remember which class though.

I think I missed something... what was the "real life Disney/Marple episode"?

Number3 03 Apr 11 at 3:08 p.m. GMT

I was watching "The Sarah Jane Adventures" and had a Harlequin  and Pierrot spotting.

The episode was called "The Day of The Clown."  I was looking for Punch, but alas he wasn't there. But a character was wearing a Punchesque costume.

MissQuin 03 Apr 11 at 11:44 a.m. GMT

When I saw Strangers in A train I was stunned to see the elderly man crawl underneath the carousel. My heart was racing, over the posibilites of the whole thing collapsing on top of him. When I looked it up, it seems he really did do it.

Rather unsettling to discuss Diseny films and Poirot and then have real life Disney/Marple episode.

I read Oscar Wilde Lord Arthur Saville's Crime and I recommend that story. It's not a murder mystery, but it's a suspense tale. There's a ironic little twist at the end of it.

GKCfan 28 Mar 11 at 12:07 a.m. GMT

Cool!  I know that the carousel isn't in the book, but I didn't know that Hitchcock took the ending from another book!

go_leafs_nation 27 Mar 11 at 10:38 p.m. GMT

Fun fact about Strangers on a Train: Hitchcock actually bought the ending of Edmund Crispin's The Moving Toyshop for the finale.

MissQuin 27 Mar 11 at 4:16 p.m. GMT

The famous Poirot theme tune could be kept. Just play it on a church organ for a Gothic sound! No, I now have trouble picturing anyone but Suchet as Poirot, same goes for Moran and Miss Lemon.

I love Strangers On A Train film and saw it a few weeks ago. I wouldn't change a thing about it. I love the carousel scene best. There's alot of hidden depth to various scenes.

When Bruno kisses his mothers hand (in a rather disconcerting way) it made me think of.- Tim Allerton in the Suchet Death On The Nile!! That's where they had the idea.

 In fact I like most Hitchcock films, there was a thread on here. I'll put the link rather than repeat myself.

http://www.agathachristie.com/forum/have-your-say/television-and-film/hitchcck/

I have Our Mutual friend to watch tonight, if I get time.

Number3 27 Mar 11 at 2:51 p.m. GMT

I was  recently at a used book shop using some coupons and headed over to the DVD section.  I found a DVD with booth versions of "Strangers on A Train."  Just think of what the story would have been like if Christie wrote it.  It would be mind blowing.

Miss Quin I started watching a good series from 1976 done by Yorkshire Television.  It's called "Dickens of London."  It stars Roy Dotrice.  Also included is a bonus disc of Simon Callow reading "A Christmas Carol" in full Dickens gear.

HarleyBarley 27 Mar 11 at 1:08 p.m. GMT

@Miss Quin: I must say, your description of Poirot ala Tim Burton made me laugh! I'm afraid Johnny Depp, versatile as he might be, wouldn't suit being a Poirot, though. I can't say for Helena Bonham Carter as Miss Lemon - perhaps she'd be better off playing, say, Jacqueline de Bellefort?

And yes, Absolem the Caterpillar (they named him that, if I remember correctly) did blow smoke on Alice's face frequently. It rather annoys her.

@darknight: I'm not sure whether or not Alice tries to actually tell them a story in the Lewis Carroll book. But in the Disney adaptation, yes, the dormouse and the March Hare were indeed part of the tea party. I think you can find a YouTube video of it, somewhere...

MissQuin 27 Mar 11 at 12:56 p.m. GMT

sorry on the above post I meant "children might not read too much into it"

MissQuin 27 Mar 11 at 11:08 a.m. GMT

I've only ever seen the British version of Gaslight. It's a classic suspense film. I've not seen the US version, but the British version is meant to be alot darker in tone. It's rather Gothic and eerie. I think it was set Victorian or Edwardian. Whereas the US version might have been set later? There's a very intense scene near the end. I can't say anymore!

I still haven't read Crooked House. I came across a second hand  PG Wodehouse book. As I wanted something amusing to read, I chose that. It was very funny. But now I've started Oscar Wilde Lord Arthur Saville's Crime and other short stories. There's a mix of mystery, supernatural, social comedy. I think there's a crime mystery story in there, but I haven't read it yet.

MissQuin 27 Mar 11 at 11:01 a.m. GMT

Sometimes an author or producer has their arm twisted over material they want to use. So I wasn't sure if the caterpillar was changed.

If anyone's read AC biog, then there's a piece where the producers of Albi? play wanted to make Poirot 20 years younger! Plus call him Beau Poirot, it's just beyond belief. Then AC wrote it into McGinty with Mrs Oliver and Robin Upward going through the scenrio. Love that part so much. : )

Most fairy tales have a a sinister side. If you look at them as an adult you have a whole list of crimes and dark deeds. But as children I think most would read too much into it. There's a grim part of Snow White about the Queen wanting her dead and the rest is more gory.

I just don't think the other Tim Burton films are for me. I'd rather watch Poirot. Can you picture a  Tim Burton version of Poirot?!  Poirot sitting in the gloom, his face a picture of woe, dressed all in black and white.. hold on that is like the recent Poirot! Except with a padded out aged up Johnny Depp as Poirot with Helena Bonham Carter as Miss Lemon!  No I'm not being serious.

NightRayDuck 27 Mar 11 at 5:23 a.m. GMT

Hi Miss Quin!  Since I've seen the movie and I see three other friends here discussing the lack of interest in seeing Burton's "Alice in Wonderland", I'll go ahead and start spilling spoilers! Of course the caterpillar in this film still smokes! He smokes a very thin pipe, and blows a lot of smoke in Alice's face. By the way I shouldn't think Tim Burton ever heeded the politically-correct critics much.

By the way, quite a number of churches and towns in the US boycotted "The Corpse Bride". They think it promotes necrophilia. Well, I think the character of the chosen bridegroom, protesting the plan every few seconds, is pretty good disclaimer against marrying the dead. The story turned out to have a mystery a little like the one in the noir / suspense film "Gaslight" (1944 with Ingrid Bergman). I think most of "The Corpse Bride" was a whole lot of curdely-done zombie joke, but I enjoyed the mystery bit quite a lot. 

My opinion on Burton's "Sleepy Hollow" (1999) is similar, a lot of body-toppling, blood-spurting crude jokes, but the character interaction there was better than in "The Corpse Bride".

MissQuin 26 Mar 11 at 11:02 a.m. GMT

Came back from holiday yesterday. I'm trying to catch up on these posts, slowly reading my way through.

Number3- I wouldn't watch Alice In Wonderland either. I tried watching Nightmare Before Christmas, I've seen bits of Chocolate factory, Corpse Bride. They just don't appeal to me. But I love the finale music of Nightmare revisited. It's on youtube, although I guess it might be leaning towards a punk song.

Harley- The only thing I'm curious about is did they have to alter the caterpillar? I think they should keep in with the essense of the orignal story. But you know how the PC brigade might not allow a smoking caterpillar! I have heard about the hidden adult references in the stories, but haven't read them as an adult, so I can't say.

On the other hand (excuse the unintentional pun) I loved Edward Scissorhands. I watched it grudgingly, preparing to hate it it. I didn't, I was captivated. The story was so poignant, strange, subversive, yet having a real heart to it. There's clearly a deeper message in the story, about people who appear to be different being singled out.

On to an older topic- still the Commedia dell'Arte haunt me  Okay, I'm being melodramatic. But I did see a Pierrot doll and a Harlequin and Columbine scarf. I mean not the pattern, but the actual figures!

NightRayDuck 25 Mar 11 at 10:28 p.m. GMT

oh I forgot to mention.. the Dormouse in the Tim Burton film is also a tiny creature. A tiny rodent dressed like a swashbuckler, totting a tiny sword and charging at enemies.. that's why I admired that portrayal so much. ;)

NightRayDuck 25 Mar 11 at 10:26 p.m. GMT

@Number3: you're not alone at all. I like to watch adaptations that aren't much related to the alleged source material, because when an adaptation tries to be true to the original writing but had to omit or change just a few things due to staging feasibility and viewer reaction and so on.. then I get very confused. :p

NightRayDuck 25 Mar 11 at 10:24 p.m. GMT

@Harley: thanks for the Dormouse info! :) I think I pretty much slept through that scene. Being a toddler in a culture which fed one tiny meal to a toddler a day, I didn't understand a tea party where people are talking and arguing and knocking things over and not eating much. I have no memory of the March Hare, either. So Alice tries to tell a story at the tea party, eh? Is that also in the original book?

HarleyBarley 25 Mar 11 at 7:57 a.m. GMT

@darknight: The Dormouse is present in the Disney film, but only very passingly. You might remember the Mad Hatter's tea party, with the March Hare? The Dormouse there is a tiny creature, frequently found inside tea-pots. Once, when Alice tries to tell a story about her cat Dinah, the Dormouse goes on a panicking fit and has to be pursued by the Hatter and the Hare.

@Number3: I, too, am not very interested. I had expected it to be a by-the-book adaptation of Lewis Carrol's work, but when I found out it wasn't - well, it was quite a disappointment. I did watch a YouTube clip of it, though, because the prospect of Alan Rickman as a caterpillar tickles me. He managed to pull it off, somehow.

Number3 24 Mar 11 at 1:15 p.m. GMT

I haven't seen the Burton film and, I don't plan to anytime in the near future.  The film just doesn't intrest me. 

Am I alone in this opinion?

NightRayDuck 24 Mar 11 at 4:43 a.m. GMT

Quite so. The Tim Burton movie is a political situation being played out with characters which were designed to be pointless. Alice is now older and more resolute, that's why the character works so well. By the way, I can't recall the Dormouse from the Disney animated film, but the Dormouse in the Tim Burton movie is up there with Alice as my two favorite characters in that movie.. Dormouse always saying what she thinks, fighting whomever she perceives as the enemy, never for a moment pretending to be insane. So cool. 

go_leafs_nation 23 Mar 11 at 1:40 p.m. GMT

The Burton Alice in Wonderland is not about Alice, nor is it about Wonderland. It is Burton being Burton, and his obsessions for his own stylistic traits really get in the way here. Instead of a Mad Hatter, we get a cringe-worthy performance from Depp as the Joker's less successful twin brother. Instead of nonsense, we get a political statement. Instead of fun, we get... well, Burton. The only things the movie had going for itself were Mia Wasikowska, surprisingly charming as Alice, and Stephen Fry, perfect as the Cheshire Cat- as well as stunning music by Danny Elfman. Overall, not worth it.

HarleyBarley 23 Mar 11 at 8:45 a.m. GMT

Don't worry, darknight, it's somewhat impossible to spoiler warning me - most of the time I've spoiled myself first. And in this case, I have indeed read lots about the Tim Burton version. It is indeed more of a sequel than an adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, but at least none as dark as, say, American McGee's Alice.

Please do tell us your impressions of the Alice books after you've read them! We (as I believe I can vouch for the rest in this area) are quite interested in how you'll find it to be...

NightRayDuck 22 Mar 11 at 10:58 p.m. GMT

I saw the Tim Burton / Johnny Depp version and enjoyed it, but friends who have read and studied the books for class told me that the movie was a little more like "Through the Looking Glass" than like "Wonderland". One thing I can say for certain is that the movie has a "conflict - entrance of hero - acceptance of destiny - resolution of conflict - restoration of peace" type of plot; it's definitely not pointless enough to be like the Wonderland original story.

MAYBE SPOILER for this movie:

Depp's Mad Hatter character is sitting in enemy territory waiting for the arrival of the fable-foretold hero who's said to be able to vanquish the enemy so the overrun country can be restored.

NightRayDuck 22 Mar 11 at 10:51 p.m. GMT

dunno, it's been a while I looked at that book, but the book itself was Alice in Wonderland and Alice Through the Looking Glass together in nearly 400 pages. it's filled with original illustrations and new illustrations, too, and loads of footnotes and annotations. it gave an impression of trying to be a literature textbook and a children's picture book at the same time..

everything else I could find was either picture book under 20 pages, or textbook-priced textbook.

 I forgot about the Gutenberg Project, though! I therw away the link back when my internet was slow and there's no hope of opening anything from the Project. I'll try to get along there and look up available Alice shortly. Thanks for the reminder!

HarleyBarley 22 Mar 11 at 2:47 p.m. GMT

"Move down, move down!"

Ah, the Hatter. I rather liked him. The Disney version of him was somewhat pleasant, and I remember how I used to laugh at his vandalism of the pocket-watch. Can't speak for the Tim Burton/Johnny Depp interpretation, though, as I haven't seen that film.

Number3 22 Mar 11 at 12:56 p.m. GMT

Dark Ray the 200 page version of Alice seems odd.  The edition I have is around 100 pages and it's a facsimile of the 1865 edition.  Also, another one to try is "Phantasmagoria." 

"Clean cup, clean cup."

HarleyBarley 22 Mar 11 at 7:50 a.m. GMT

Two hundred pages? That's a surprise for me, as well. I read it online, at The Gutenberg Project (it opens for free). And it doesn't feel that long, at least not two hundred pages! In fact, I thought it was rather short...

NightRayDuck 22 Mar 11 at 1:09 a.m. GMT

yes, I do understand that "through the looking glass" is sequel to "wonderland". it's just that, well, seeing that "wonderland" occupied more than 200 pages in a trade paperback was a bit of a shock for me after my experience with my 10-page picture book and whatever length the Disney movie was, which I slept through most of it anyway. I am hoping that if I read the sequel first, I can get used to the writing style and the pace of the story without trying to figure out "how many chapters to go until the next thing I saw in the Disney picture book?" 

HarleyBarley 21 Mar 11 at 2:45 p.m. GMT

It is indeed the whole point behind Alice in Wonderland that it has no point. A rather post-modernist idea for a book that old. But it is indeed quite wonderfully absurd.

go_leafs_nation 21 Mar 11 at 2:28 p.m. GMT

I adore Alice in Wonderland, a delightfully absurd exercise in defying logic. The entire point behind the books, I think, is that there is no point. It's wonderful.

HarleyBarley 21 Mar 11 at 2:25 p.m. GMT

You might want to read Alice in Wonderland before Through the Looking-Glass (the latter is the sequel to the former). I do believe they can be somewhat stand-alone without the other, though. Maybe Mr Quin can, in fact, make a sort of appearance at the end of the story, during a critical moment (or, failing that, after all is said and done). Maybe, he can appear only to "visit" Mr Satterthwaite, so they could share a few words before he vanishes again. And, well, I could rather imagine Satterthwaite Jr. seeing them converse from afar, and smiling when she finally accepts Mr Quin's reality and presence.

NightRayDuck 21 Mar 11 at 5:50 a.m. GMT

@Number3 - thanks very much for the advice on Alice and Oz. I've been thinking perhaps I should read "Alice Through the Looking Glass" first, and now with your explanation I do think it will be the way I can manage to get around to the written story without the odd adaptations nagging at me. Oz.. I'll wait for when I've got through Alice.

NightRayDuck 21 Mar 11 at 5:44 a.m. GMT

about the Satterthwaite Jr. nickname idea - you are quite right, Harley. When I make a new lead character, I tend to make the character rather outrageous. I think that, among the ideas I have propounded for a "Mr. Quin / Mr. Satterthwaite full-length novel" in true Christie style, only the idea of "multiple characters occasionally bringing a Mr. Quin-like influence to Mr. Satterthwaite" is practiceable. And, even with that, we'll have to assume that dear Mr. Satterthwaite doesn't get annoyed at the absence of his good friend Mr. Quin. it is very difficult.

HarleyBarley 20 Mar 11 at 3:23 p.m. GMT

Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass are indeed fascinating. Sadly, like you said, Number3, lots of today's youngsters are too preoccupied with their vampire wish-fulfillment romantic fantasies to appreciate the brilliant absurdist humour in Lewis Carroll's work. I wonder why they used to be banned.

@darknight: Sasha might be a bit interesting, but I'm wondering if it's a bit too modern, a bit un-Agatha-like. But it all depends on whether you're making this a pastiche style or a "original flavour" type of story. If you're going for the latter, well, Alexandra "Sasha" is a bit outside Dame Agatha's usual sort.

Number3 20 Mar 11 at 1:34 p.m. GMT

Happy Spring !

Number3 20 Mar 11 at 1:25 p.m. GMT

"The Walrus and the Carpenter talked of many things.  Of Shoes and ships and sealing wax, and cabbages and kings."

My philosophy lecturer always quoted that line from "Alice In Wonderland" whenever he got the chance.  He was one of the more unique characters at University.

Darkray please give Alice and Oz a chance.  Especially "Through The Looking Glass."  That book is like commedia on psychotropics.

Also these stories have hidden meanings and more in them. 

But, the most interesting thing is, in the States these stories are often banned and now the stories are considered to be Grade 6 reading level and higher.

I try to get my students to read them, but they look up from vampire stories and give me weird looks.

NightRayDuck 20 Mar 11 at 2:38 a.m. GMT

HarleyBarley, you're quite right about the lead character first starting out somewhat skeptical about this mysterious Mr. Quin business. In my previous post I only managed to explain a possible way of putting a Mr. Quin influence on the novel without having he, himself, show up every other chapter.

about nickname for the lead character.. how about a niece named Alexandra Satterthwaite, a young lady of breeding and spirit who uses whatever nickname she likes and ends up calling herself Sasha Satterthwaite (Sasha being short form for Alexander in Russian and related languages; that nickname being adopted by a thoroughly English lady back then would be somewhat scandalous and outrageous? that also somewhat establishes Satterthwaite Jr. as someone who's still an actor in life, not a spectator like our Mr. Satterthwaite). and then, even, the street urchin might go like "um, say, Miss Sash Satty - did I get that right?"

HarleyBarley 19 Mar 11 at 7:02 a.m. GMT

Well, well, darknight. Another treasure trove of ideas you've uncovered! I'm starting to warm up to this Satterthwaite Jr. idea (although maybe he/she should have a different surname that's not a huge bother to type, or at least be known under a different name - first name, nickname, &c). I'm rather inclined to think that Satterthwaite Jr. would be at first a bit skeptical about this whole Harley Quin business, but when those little "clues" began to pile around (such as the urchin with the motley scarf, and whatnot), he/she starts to believe old Mr Satterthwaite's tales after all.

And about the other topic: I've rather enjoyed Alice in Wonderland, myself. I read the actual book long after I watched the animated Disney adaptation, but I found that I liked the book as much, if not even more.

NightRayDuck 19 Mar 11 at 5:54 a.m. GMT

got another idea. I think, in several of the short stories, Mr. Quin speaks of himself as someone performing a commission / request from some dead person? so, we could expand on the idea and say that, there might be other identities doing the same job but not appearing in the same shape as the Mr. Harley Quin that Mr. Satterthwaite has got acquainted with? so, either Mr. Satterthwaite himself, or if he's too obsessed with finding his friend Mr. Quin, then we use a nephew or niece Satterthwaite Jr., who is not obsessed about Mr. Quin, but has heard enough stories from the elder Satterthwaite to feel a similar sense of duty to assist when there's a motley-looking, mysterious character solving a mystery... I don't have any particular idea of what the crime / mystery will be. this setup is rather too flexible at the moment. but what I mean is, if a street urchin with a motley scarf asks Satterthwaite Jr. the toff to help bail out somebody... and later a cook in a family restaurant wearing a motley apron gives Satterthwaite Jr. some gossip relevant to the case... or someone asks Satterthwaite Jr. to help figure out a treasure map signed "H. Q. the Invisible"... stuff like that.

got the idea from the costume change in "Harlequin Valentine", actually. 

NightRayDuck 19 Mar 11 at 5:53 a.m. GMT

the "Satterthwaite Jr. who is obsessed with looking for signs from Mr. Harley Quin" - yes, it will be some great-nephew/niece or great-great-nephew/niece or such, of the original Mr. Satterthwaite, and set in modern times or anyhow in the more recent decades. the lead character will look quite silly. if I try to write it, I won't be able to go around to the mystery and the sleuthing, b/c I'll probably spend all the pages about Satterthwaite Jr. agonizing over every motley item he/she sees... I thought up the idea only because it may be slightly preferable to our favorite Mr. Satterthwaite being stressed out, or Mr. Harley Quin losing his atmosphere of mystery.

NightRayDuck 19 Mar 11 at 5:36 a.m. GMT

hmm maybe I got misled by the TV-cartoon adaptation of Batman, then.

I may be silly, but I have an unreasoning aversion to "The Wizard of Oz" and "Alice in Wonderland". I think the real problem is that all my life, I've seen adapts of the stories in movies, animated movies, cartoon series on TV.. all marketed towards children, but there was one Wizard of Oz series that was kiddy-story-like for most of the episodes, but 2 episodes full of some earth-burrowing gigantic worms, as those found in the science fiction books / movies Dune. I don't know why.. Oh, and having seen all the odd adapts before I had time to even pick up one of the original books and read at least one page.

HarleyBarley 18 Mar 11 at 2:56 p.m. GMT

I've once read an abridged version of Oz, but it was long ago. I do remember liking the Scarecrow a good lot. I suppose in a Harlequinade setting, Dorothy would be the sane(r) Columbine?

It's sad how spambots seem to overtake this site. Back before I left, they rarely ever interfered. But now - blam!

Number3 18 Mar 11 at 12:06 p.m. GMT

I was just in the Westmacott section and someone was posting very very inappropriate web sites.

I made a post to the admins.  Hopefully this will help stop the spam bots.

Currently I'm reading a book about L. Frank Baum.  The are some aspects of the Harlequin and his friends in "The Wizard of Oz" characters.  Currently I won't go to into this comparison in case some haven't read the story.

Also I just recently saw a documentary on 2 Lo AKA The BBC.  I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.

HarleyBarley 18 Mar 11 at 7:06 a.m. GMT

No, not that way. Her name is Dr Harleen Quinzel, and her pseudonym is Harley Quinn, not Harlequin. There used to be a female superheroine/supervillainess with the name Harlequin, but she is not the Joker's Harley Quinn. I've done my research early, darknight *wink*

And about the story idea, do you suppose it's set in the modern day? If so, keeping Mr Quin's enigmatic air might be somewhat harder. But the idea is intriguing, if not a bit chuckle-inducing simply because it reminds me of my own eccentricities.

NightRayDuck 17 Mar 11 at 6:52 p.m. GMT

I have an extremely odd idea for a Mr. Quin / Satterthwaite full-length novel, and I certainly expect to be hung, drawn, quartered (treatment for traitors), and my remains boiled in vinegar (treatment for vampires) for it.

..well, you see, it's not the original Mr. Satterthwaite, and no specific Mr. Quin at all..

supposing we have a character who is a great-nephew or great-niece of our favorite Mr. Satterthwaite? and while the original Mr. Satterthwaite is sensitive to dramatic atmosphere and may occasionally be deceived by it, this Satterthwaite Jr. goes around spotting any Harlequin reference or motley / multi-colored diamond-shape items and assumes that some event of grave magnitude and human drama is occurring? and then suppose some crime syndicate AND some government intelligence agency both want to take advantage of this eccentricity of Satterthwaite Jr., all at the same time..

NightRayDuck 17 Mar 11 at 6:43 p.m. GMT

Well, I could also do vampire-spotting, Sherlock Holmes-spotting, or failed-imitation of Dr. Watson-spotting..

I think.. I think the character in Batman is, real name Dr. / Miss Harley Quinn; when she decided to go with the Joker (yes, sort of his consort / assistant / hench-jester to take the blame when things go wrong), she calls herself Harlequin. There were several issues in which Dr. Harley Quinn went on a crime spree with another serial villain in the Batman comics, there she is rather more efficient and frightening. I think Joker just spends too much time laughing / faking laughs. Well, anyway..

HarleyBarley 17 Mar 11 at 3:13 p.m. GMT

Aheheh...apparently the Harlequin-spotting has become a new hobby! Rather rivals bird-spotting and train-spotting, does it not?

Number3 17 Mar 11 at 2:26 p.m. GMT

Something I just realized that everyone might find interesting is about the comic "Spy vs. Spy."  Look at the character and who do we see, " il dottore!!" 

!BANG!

So, I guess we have all become Harlequin and Dottore spotters.

The Harlequin did show up in a"Doctor Who" episode during the Peter Davidson era.  Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the episode.

Darkray, I'm a big fan of Art Deco and could help with that part of the story.

HarleyBarley 17 Mar 11 at 11:28 a.m. GMT

I rather find Batman's Harley Quinn to be less frightening and more silly. She seems to be incompetent in some of her versions, and even though her mad love for the Joker is indeed creepy, it seems to be played for laughs.

Mr Satterthwaite? Cook? Impossible! He'd rather probably hire the best French chef he could afford, it seems. Or perhaps he blew a good lot of his money sponsoring the opera girl mentioned in one of the short stories, the one who didn't do Isolde justice.

MissQuin 17 Mar 11 at 9:41 a.m. GMT

I've checked on wiki it's indeed Harley Quinn in Batman. Sounds scary! Wilde said: "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." That must apply to women too.

I'm aware that I must come across as woman with a jester/Commedia dell'Arte fixtation. I assure you I don't go round robbing banks whilst wearing a jester costume.  

I'm certian Mr S wouldn't even do his own cooking. He seems to spend most of time dining at restaurants, cafe's or other people's houses.

HarleyBarley 17 Mar 11 at 9:16 a.m. GMT

@darknight: No, no, I'm afraid her name isn't Harlequin; she's the other Harley Quinn (note the double N). And she's the Joker's consort-of-sorts. The Joker himself is sometimes called The Harlequin of Hate. Now that's two concepts that never go together well!

And about the story, I think you can still work on it. Me, I'm located in a little nook in the planet I like to dub World's End, but with a good lot of research (nigh-obsesive, even), I can try to emulate such stories. If you've gathered as much resources as you can, imagining a period setting in a different place won't be as impossible as it sounds. Still, you've got a point about having a beta or collaborator to cross-check things with.

@Miss Quin: Tut, tut! Such trouble Mr Satterthwaite will be in! But I agree, I've no idea why a valet is never mentioned. Perhaps the valet is "invisible" - that is, simply never depicted but is assumed to exist - or is the valet his chauffeur too (which we know is referred to often)?

MissQuin 17 Mar 11 at 8:44 a.m. GMT

 I dont know Batman, was that a female Harley Quin?

Harley lives Indonisia, Number 3 in Canada. That only leaves me who lives in England. I'd be happy to help as best I can, with any questions you might have.

I'm on holiday to Bath for a week now, I won't be online for a week.

NightRayDuck 17 Mar 11 at 6:06 a.m. GMT

about Harlequin spotting and psychiatrists... in the Batman, umm, crime-fighting super-hero comic book series, um, there's a character who adopts the nickname Harlequin - a young psychiatrist for the criminally insane, who fell in love with an insane criminal with a jester-fixation.. 

..goes into hiding..

NightRayDuck 17 Mar 11 at 6:04 a.m. GMT

about hypothetical user name - thanks, Miss Quin, for the feedback! I do remember my older siblings owning a cassette tape of ACDC..

about novel-length Parker Pyne story - thank you for all the ideas, Harley, Miss Quin, and Number3! As I haven't lived in England, I think it would be unwise to make me responsible for the actual writing of such a story.. there will be etiquettes that I do not know, period furniture and decor style that I have not seen, nuances to words, beliefs at the time.. that I can't use in a story correctly or effectively. However, I would love to collaborate in the creation of such a novel, in the role of the plot provider and character consistency checker, say.

MissQuin 16 Mar 11 at 3:19 p.m. GMT

I tried to watch Bright Star but the DVD was too badly scratched. I was 40 minutes into it, enjoying and then it skipped again and again. Well I'll have to hire another disc.

Darknight- I'm sure no-one would be offended. But I misread your user as ACDC fan! If your too young, they were maybe still are a metal group.

I wonder why Mr S never had a valet? I've only thought of it. As a man of means it was the custom of that time.

 Harley, in my vivid imagination, I can picture a scene: Poor Mr Satterthwaite suffering nervous exhaustation at a dinner party. He collapses and is laid out on a chaise lounge. Then the guests go to fetch a doctor. As Mr Satterthwaite lies eyes closed on the couch, the doctor asks "have you seen a psychiatrist?"

Mr Satterthwaite replies "No only Harlequin!"

Then to make matters worse, Mr Satterthwaite opens his eyes to find the doctor is actually il dottore!! Cue dramatic church organ music.

HarleyBarley 15 Mar 11 at 7:38 a.m. GMT

@Miss Quin: Haha, it's all quite possible Mr Satterthwaite will be much too nervous when it comes to a novel. He'll always be on edge, trying to catch a glimpse of his friend (or, if Mr Quin was already there, trying to keep him within sight).

I hope you'll still have fun with Crooked House. I've been through spoilt stories, but sometimes they're still quite interesting.

NightRayDuck 14 Mar 11 at 9:35 p.m. GMT

I am going to go completely off-topic for a moment...

If I change my user name to "ACDfan" or "EAPfan", do you think Christie fans who aren't familiar with other mystery writers would find it totally confusing or offensive? 

MissQuin 14 Mar 11 at 3:07 p.m. GMT

Thanks for the recommendation number3. I have Bright Star to watch tonight, as I love John Keats poetry. I have quite alot of costume drams lined up to watch. I've still not seen The Way We Live Now with Suchet.

Harley- I think poor Mr Mr Satterthwaite would probably be very edgy in a full length novel. It's all very well him going months without seeing Mr Quin. But in the middle of a mystery would surely drive him mad.

Plus I have Crooked house to read. The whodunnit was psoilt for me, but hopefully it'll still be a good read.

HarleyBarley 14 Mar 11 at 5:38 a.m. GMT

@Number3: Aheheh...the largest problem with my location is that "comic books" usually mean Japanese manga or local knock-offs thereorf, or the occasional Belgian comics (Tintin and Asterix being the most common). Most people down here aren't, in general, interested in comics. Conventions are not something I often find either. Maybe one day I'll just order online.

Number3 13 Mar 11 at 3:07 p.m. GMT

Dark Night, a possible plot for a Pyne story could be a case that was "unsolvable" by another famous literary detective.  In my opinion, I think that Pyne would be wonderful at solving cold cases.

Harley, you could go to a comic book convention and possibly find it.  Or, are you not in a place that has them.  I had a friend who owned a comic store and he taught me some tricks for finding comics that were hard to find.

Also, I just went to betterworldbooks.com and they had 9 copies in hard cover.

Miss Quinn, I just saw a very good costume drama/horror film.  It's called "Terror of Frankenstein."  It was made in 1977 and filmed in Ireland.  The main star in this film, the monster, Per Oscarsson, went onto star in the Swedish "Millennium" films AKA "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, The Girl Who Played With Fire, and "The Girl Who Kicked The Hornets Nest."

HarleyBarley 13 Mar 11 at 12:20 p.m. GMT

Alas, double post. Bloomin' internet.

HarleyBarley 13 Mar 11 at 12:16 p.m. GMT

darknight, you've officially a PhD in Christieology in my mind now. The way you analysed and pored over the entire comcept, and did it quite convincingly I might say. You should try writing it - it should be interesting. Make a tribute to Dame Agatha and Parker Pyne, ala all the Sherlock Holmes pastiches.

About Harlequin Valentine: an analysis of it sans the actual story would be useless for me, unless it's a story I already have separately. Unfortunately this isn't the case, so I suppose we'll have to find the comic somewhere else, eh? I didn't see it at my local bookstores either.

NightRayDuck 13 Mar 11 at 1:21 a.m. GMT

how about Colonel Race as the friend who tells them to calm down and get back to the tea time activities? 

NightRayDuck 13 Mar 11 at 1:16 a.m. GMT

we could possibly put in minor characters from the Christie canon to assist in the atmosphere. I can't ever keep the story timeline straight in my head, so my suggestion of the other Christie characters might be quite wrong chronologically, but you'll see what I mean..

for example:

if we set the "crime" as an international conspiracy to get a British submarine plan to a private manufacturer that intends to first build the submarine, and then demonstrate its power and then sell the finished submarine to the highest-bidding country.

and then we set the particular villain who bursts into this final discussion as a young man who dislikes the Navy very much (for whatever reason) and had gotten involved in this conspiracy because he wished the submarine, produced by a private manufacturer and sold to whomsoever, would end up sinking the above-surface fleets of every nation.

then among those bullet holes would be one on a painting of a British Navy ship in a historic battle - seemingly symbolic. if the Honourable Mr. George Lomax (right age?) is one of the friends discussing unexplained matters (and he would ask people to be VERY DISCREET!!), he might, I think, be wooly-headed enough to fancy that the villain had meant, specifically, to shoot at the ship in the painting. Mr. Lomax might even approach panic and apoplexy upon such a thought.

whereupon Mr. Parker Pyne would endeavor to dispel the frightening illusion and calm down Mr. Lomax. and of course, Mr. Parker Pyne does so by calling upon statistics... and pointing out the other bullet holes on paintings of a bowl of fruits, a fox hunting scene, and...

whereupon another friend would ask them both to relax, and get back to the tea and sandwich. 

NightRayDuck 13 Mar 11 at 1:03 a.m. GMT

about novel for Mr. Parker Pyne - I am thinking of a version if it had been written by Dame Agatha herself, or commissioned by the Agatha Christie Estate to be written by selected professional writers... not a screen adaptation or a fan-fiction. The important difference being, the "official" version would not need to spend any paragraph linking the story content to the Parker Pyne in the original canon. Rather, all paragraphs should be devoted to illustrating Mr. Parker Pyne already being quite an astute statistician while still a young man working in a government office. So, the "symbolic places" are not to be symbolic about Mr. Parker Pyne's own specialty or personal life, but rather about something that the villain might have claimed to hate - and after the villain is taken away and things quiet down, one of the other young men, possibly a wooly-headed one,  would look around and point out "wow, see, he even shot at the [something possibly symbolic]" - and then Mr. Parker Pyne would point out that the shots were fired during a struggle, any specific image being hit was completely coincidental - and then Parker Pyne might also point at the other bullet holes on images not at all related to anything that the villain had been complaining about - finally, Mr. Parker Pyne might even start talking about statistics of a) trajectory of random shots fired during a struggle, and b) the low probability that an angry villain walking into an unfamiliar room could have shot at specific symbols that he disliked, and c) - upon which point some good friend hands him a sandwich and tells him that the rest of them understand and the wooly-headed one probably has just finished mis-interpreting and mis-memorizing the statistics that had just been provided. 

NightRayDuck 13 Mar 11 at 12:43 a.m. GMT

about Harlequin Valentine - I can't find a copy in my local stores; it is still available online. In online stores, there is also a much pricier publication by Wikipedia, basically an 84-page article explaining all about Harlequin and about Neil Gaiman and about the short story itself. I just wanted to say that such an expensive explanation that does not contain the original story or comic in its whole form is probably not what you're looking for. FYI.

Number3 12 Mar 11 at 3:20 p.m. GMT

Currently I'm reading Defoe's book "Journal of a Plague Year."  It's rather interesting.

Something I did see on a documentary about the plaque was, that descendants of people who have had the plaque or were exposed to it still have markers of it in their DNA.

And the weird twist of this out come is, if you have these markers you are less likely to get certain diseases  that those who don't have the markers.

Now that would make for an interesting story.

HarleyBarley 12 Mar 11 at 2:47 p.m. GMT

A very interesting idea, the Parker Pyne novel! And as for Miss Quin's little question: maybe the holes meant are, say, on number-related things?

A Harley Quin novel will be a tough thing. As you've said, keeping him a mystery is part of his entire appeal - have him pop up too often, and he's just an annoying bloke who likes to act like a wacko sometimes. Well, maybe not that drastic, but that's beside the point. The most we could get is a novelette, maybe - not as long as novel, perhaps, but then again not as short as a short story either.

MissQuin 12 Mar 11 at 11:05 a.m. GMT

 You've certainly put alot of thought into it Darknight, very well done!

A simular discussion on here was: what would a full length Mr Quin story be like? But I like the stories just the way they are.  I'm glad AC didn't write a full length. I think that perhaps Harley Quin appearing throughout the novel would take away alot of the mystery.

darknightofrays

we might go as far as the villain brandishing a revolver, screaming that mathematics had always been a hated subject in school, and firing off a few rounds, making holes in tapestries or paintings at completely coincidental but seemingly symbolic places. And then the villain gets caught.

 Where would those symbolic places be?  

If that was a Marple adapt, just add a few- not so secret Nazi spies, a big house, a Vicar a few glamourous men and women.

NightRayDuck 11 Mar 11 at 10:15 p.m. GMT

Since this novel will be set in Mr. Parker Pyne's youth, we might put just one or two instances where he errs by misidentifying the type of a personality or such, the kind of things that he's very brilliant at, by the time we see him in the short stories.

Some type of brief but astonishing physical confrontation may be put at the climax of the story. I don't think Mr. Parker Pyne, even when he's young, would go looking for an "adventure", but on the other hand he is strongly built and not obviously shrinking from dangers. It's a little difficult for me to think of a situation where he'll have worked on a case through nearly a whole novel, piecing clues together and finding out the grave magnitude and significance of the criminal conspiracy, and then still end up kidnapped / knocked on the head / drugged by the villains.

I am thinking perhaps we have the villain walking in on an informal discussion between the various "young men who work in the Government who noticed there's something going on", just at the point when Mr. Parker Pyne is about to say "but this-or-that person (in fact the villain), telling such a thing / doing such an action, doesn't fit in with what we know about that person."

If we wish to be melodramatic, we might go as far as the villain brandishing a revolver, screaming that mathematics had always been a hated subject in school, and firing off a few rounds, making holes in tapestries or paintings at completely coincidental but seemingly symbolic places. And then the villain gets caught.

And this, will be Mr. Parker Pyne's personal experience on some adventure and danger to look back on, when he continues his stable and peaceful life. 

NightRayDuck 11 Mar 11 at 9:45 p.m. GMT

I think the way to involve Mr. Parker Pyne in a novel-length case and still present his flair and personality is to:

c) see Mr. Parker Pyne, when he was younger, compiling records and statistics for the Home Office. possibly he notices a trend in the statistics that isn't explained by changes in the other numbers. perhaps he hears friends in other departments discussing some other unexplained matters. he puts in his discovery about the inconsistency in numbers. such a start to a case would be more natural than something like "the Prime Minister hears that young Parker Pyne is an amazing statistician, and feels he must be consulted immediately on the matter of the stolen submarine plans!"

Now, if we say that Mr. Parker Pyne immediately went off into an adventure and had amazing successes in trailing foreign spies or being a crack shot with a revolver, it would rather upset his dependable and bland appearance and methodology after his retirement. I'd prefer to set him as the "armchair detective", or anyhow, the nerdy friend who gives some significant but highly technical pointers over a cup of coffee. We could possibly have some elderly relatives or prospective in-laws of Mr. Parker Pyne or of his friends, and show him as absorbing some seemingly unimportant information over a cup of tea and a plate of sandwiches.

NightRayDuck 11 Mar 11 at 9:24 p.m. GMT

my idea of a full-length Parker Pyne novel:

I think that Mr. Parker Pyne is very matter-of-fact, he is not likely to go follow a trail of suspicions or clues. And he's not usually hired for the solution of criminal cases. His successes in a wide range of various situations, including a few crimes that he sort of walked in on, seem to depend very much on his understanding of human nature, and the statistics work that he had done while working as a civil servant. Also, he prefers to turn a case over to the authorities or get an expert opinion whenever appropriate. What I am trying to say is, he is not likely to work a novel-length case like Poirot often does, or go off on a chase like Tommy & Tuppence. I think there are only a few scenarios where Mr. Parker Pyne can work a novel-length case and still be quite the same man.

a) being interested in a case due to a relative or acquaintance, similar to, perhaps, Supt. Battle's role in Towards Zero, Miss Marple's role in A Pocket Full of Rye, or Poirot's role in Hickory Dickory Dock.

b) being somehow or other confined at one location and it's urgent that the case must be solved before turning it over to the authorities - not like Poirot's Orient Express, where it was possible to let the police take their time investigating everyone and getting very confused and still not arresting or accusing any of the suspects. for Parker Pyne, the urgency to solve the case must be real, in a situation similar to And Then There Were None. but I'd rather not see Mr. Parker Pyne being stressed in such a dangerous situation.

GKCfan 11 Mar 11 at 9:13 p.m. GMT

Exactly, darknightofrays.  The difference between medicine and poison is often a matter of dosage.

NightRayDuck 11 Mar 11 at 8:53 p.m. GMT

about Harlequin Valentine - now I want to go find the comic book version in a book store and see about this addition about Harlequinade meanings. 

about strychnine - I just recently read in the Parker Pyne short story "Death on the Nile" that a nurse carried strychnine as emergency revival medicine for certain types of heart attack (or something)? it's a matter of correct diagnosis (is this the heart problem at the correct phase to be fixed by strychnine?) and dosage. it's when people think that "medicine: good for you. take twice the dose: does twice as much good" that things become problematic. sort of like the days when my boss didn't eat anything properly all day and instead drank apprx 12 cups of coffee. 

MissQuin 11 Mar 11 at 3:46 p.m. GMT

This is so weird. After joking about Commedia dell'Arte character spotting. I was having a look through costume drama dvds and I saw the cover of Les Enfants Du Paradis. It features a Harlequin and a Pierrot, very odd! It makes me wonder where they'll pop up next.

HarleyBarley 11 Mar 11 at 7:47 a.m. GMT

Well, I'm certain that after a few cases, most vermin would prefer to stay away from the yellow arsenic. And, well, as we Christie-fans know, even into the early 20th century, strychnine was still considered a "tonic" that can help perk one's self up. Outside of AC, I've seen that particular use (not lethally, though) in H. G. Wells' The Invisible Man, which dates into the Victorian era.

Harlequin Valentine sounds quite interesting. I'll try to get my hands on it. Oh, and if I heard correctly, there was some sort of addition at the end to help less Harlequinade-obsessed readers to decipher the meanings, was there not?

NightRayDuck 11 Mar 11 at 4:24 a.m. GMT

oh, herbal scent to ward off particular disease was like the "bad air" theory... one particular plant worked to keep away one particular vector (critter that carried the disease, ex. the mosquito with the malaria critter) in one particular locale / season / environment, and then the hint, like "wonderful health tips!" we have these days, got carried to locations with completely different diseases and critters and environment and herbs.

the Chinese used to drink yellow arsenic (I forgot, arsenic sulfate maybe?) dissolved in strong liquor at the beginning of summer, b/c yellow arsenic solution sprinkled around the house used to keep vermins away.

I want to see a Harlequinade, too, or at least read a plot summary. I really can't tell if "Harlequin Valentine" is a good Harlequin story. the interesting thing is that the first-person narrator casts himself as Harlequin the jester who plays jokes on everyone, and then goes and chases after this girl that he casts as Columbine, and starts reproaching himself as behaving too much like Pierrot~ It might be that it's a Harlequin who is too literal-minded, but I think it's equally possible that it's a fancy-struck young man who decides to tell an ordinary story in a highly-colored narrative. The narrator cast several characters as the Doctor, and Pantalone, and so on, but no real color scheme specified for them. The narrator claims that he's wearing costume of yellow and red diamonds, and his Columbine is wearing blue coat, but that's at the beginning... As the misadventure of Harlequin's heart unfolded, there are color changes and, eventually, role changes.

MissQuin 10 Mar 11 at 4:13 p.m. GMT

Although lavender's scent is lovely, I'm sure it didn't ward off the plague like people thought. There was a belief about carrying a type of flower at a funeral. But I forget which one. It maybe have been a violet. They thought it warded off evil spirits.

The closest I've got to seeing a Harlequinade is in The Affair At The Victory Ball episode. It would have been great fun - if Harlequin hadn't been murdered! It put a dampener on events. I remember there's a version of the Commedia dell'Arte story, where Columbine is married to Pierrot. But in another she elopes with Harlequin. Or sometimes they get merged toegther.

I'm currenty reading Idylls of the King, Dagonet the fool is rather tragic, yet has to carry on dancing!  

HarleyBarley 10 Mar 11 at 9:09 a.m. GMT

Lavender is certainly better than pickled onions, but if I remember correectly, lavender is used to mask of the singular odours from the unwashed bodies. Dissipate a bit of the bad air, you see. They didn't have Chanel no. 5 or what have you back then.

I would love to watch a Harlequinade, or at least a Commedia dell'Arte show that isn't in Italian (my Italian is a bit rusty now). And I suppose while Arlecchino used to be quite the buffoon, the English Harlequin had always been an unworldly, almost ethereal sort of dancer as far as I know. The English decided to give the clownish role to - well, Clown. And Columbine as a concubine is somewhat tentative - she's a very adaptable character, ranging from a courtesan to an innocent servant girl to Pantalone's daughter, depending on what the plot needs.

MissQuin 09 Mar 11 at 4:09 p.m. GMT

I don't know anything about comics and I can't say they interest me muc I'm afraid.

But if we were going to say how many Commedia dell'Arte I spotted i na year, then it wolud be a large amount. I don't even go looking for them, they find me! The logical explanation is that although I don't watch that many films/programmes, when I do they tend to be costume adapts.

I was watching a great film called The Innocents. There as a music box in an attic room. It had a Pierrot inside it. The film is meant to be load with hidden meanings, so perhaps the Pierrot represented the lead's loneliness or her unrequited love?

I've never seen a Harlequinade, but I feel that it might be strange to see it. The style of jokes used in the originals might seemed meaningless, or even unfunny to modern audiences. It's odd that it's refered to as a comdey. Before I read about Commedia dell'Arte, none of the characters seem remotely amsuing. Pierrot is melanchonic, Punch a thuggish brute, the doctor looks very sinister.

Of course  AC transformed Harlequin into what I consider a more interesting character. More complex, unworldy and a dancer rather than a clown. He seems to have had Pierrot's sadness rub off on him too. Columbine is described as pretty, that's about it. In the original it seems she was a heavily made up concubine. I prefer Chrisitie's version.

Oh and pickled onions in rooms? Horrible! I heard they carried lavender. That's got to be better than pickled onions?!

HarleyBarley 09 Mar 11 at 12:33 p.m. GMT

I've never seen either comic not short story, but at least for me, spoilers are unheeded. I've never seen a Harlequinade myself - curious how I was practically obsessed with the Harlequinade and Commedia dell'Arte since my early years, but never got around to experiencing them.

SPOILERS for Harlequin Valentine

Indeed I've read about both spoilers before. The story's Harlequin is said to "typecast" various characters he interacts with into their Harlequinade versions, although whether or not his insight is true or just stereotyping is debateable. I wonder what colours Gaiman used to hint at the roles - care to divulge a bit there?

NightRayDuck 09 Mar 11 at 8:40 a.m. GMT

about "Harlequin Valentine", I've never seen the comic book. I like the short story. but I haven't ever seen a real Harlequinade, nor have I heard a lecture on the symbolisms in the Harlequinade. I don't really know if this one is good as a Harlequin story. 

POSSIBLE SPOILER for "Harlequin Valentine":

literal-minded, yes? the first-person narrator identifies himself as Harlequin, and says he has got his heart nailed to a girl's door (the gory part), and also he starts chasing the girl all around town.

PROBABLY A WORSE SPOILER also for "Harlequin Valentine":

Near the end of the short story, a "change of mask = change of role" is performed. The color schemes of the clothes on various characters are used to hint at their Harlequinade roles.

HarleyBarley 09 Mar 11 at 7:05 a.m. GMT

@darknightofrays: Well, now! You've got quite a point at the "bad air" theory there. Touche, touche. And, I've known about "Harlequin Valentine" - I just have never gotten around to actually read it, even though I want to. I've heard the Harlequin there is a bit...literal-minded, especially with giving his heart away. How good was it?

I think I got a Harlequinade sighting. Sadly, I saw it in my dream last night, so it mightn't count. Only a passing thereof, though.

NightRayDuck 09 Mar 11 at 3:59 a.m. GMT

report on Harlequin-spotting: single-issue comic book, also short story, "Harlequin Valentine", by Neil Gaiman. the story is rather gory, but I classify it as a romantic comedy, meaning there's some sort of happy ending for the main characters. 

NightRayDuck 09 Mar 11 at 3:56 a.m. GMT

HarleyBarley, I don't think the "bad air" notion was strange, it was just that people hadn't developed all the microscopes and chemical precipitations necessary to identify the tiny invisible critters that we now know as bacteria. 

Bad air would have been associated with bad health through several different conditions: 1) swampy area with ex. mosquito that transmit the Plasmodium critter that causes malaria, 2) the messier, dirtier part of town where trash and refuse weren't cleared away, and so vermins bred easily and had lots of places to hide before finally biting a human and transmitting the ex. plague bacteria, 3) in a house with too much wood smoke, or not enough ventilation, ending up with carbon monixide accumulation, or simple lack of oxygen - people tended to feel haunted, feel ill, or die suddenly without visible injury or disease. Quite different causes, but back in the days, dirty air was the most obvious warning sign for people. 

HarleyBarley 08 Mar 11 at 3:46 p.m. GMT

@Number3: Isn't it a curious idea, the medieval doctors' notion that "bad air" causes the plague? I've read all sorts of "cures" for the plague, including an excerpt from a book at the era, prescribing pickled onions to be placed around the house to keep the plague away. How strange.

I've never read the Sandman comics, although I do have vague ideas about the most mainstream comic book mythoses...

Number3 08 Mar 11 at 2:57 p.m. GMT

Speaking of the doctor and his mask I'm currently reading about the plague and the fire of 1665-66. 

I bit ironic isn't.

Miss Quin when you described the character I was like that's a doctor.  Something you might find interesting,  the "first" Sandman comic character is loosely based on ll Dottore.

HarleyBarley 08 Mar 11 at 2:20 p.m. GMT

I don't think people wear those masks for parties like that. For the actual Carnevale, though, they generally didn't mind. Besides the Dottore's mask with the enormous beak, there was also the more generic bautta, which is that (usually) white-gold-black-red full-face mask. You might remember it as the cover for The Complete Quin and Satterthwaite.

Punch and Judy might count, I think. In the original Commedia dell'Arte, Il Dottore wears a half-face mask with a similar red nose, also indicating his hobby (or, sometimes, just his "know nothing know-it-all" nature). He's the only character besides the lovers and Colombina to be given make-up - Il Dottore wears lots of blush.

MissQuin 08 Mar 11 at 1:43 p.m. GMT

Thanks Harley, I've been so curious about that costume for some time. I did notice the resemblance with the plague masks. I do wonder, at a party, how they' d have a drink with the beak in the way?!  Plus gouging their partner in the eye on the dancefloor does seem a possiblity! I wouldn't personally dance with Il Dottore, as I find him so creepy. Harlequin on the other hand...

In Halloween party there's small child with the Il Dottore mask and an oversized ruff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os51GZy8foQOh

I've not spotted any Harlequins for a few weeks. The last time I saw one was an ornament a shop. I didn't buy it as it didn't match my home decor. ; ) When I watched Partner's In Crime there's an excellent episode called The Gentleman dressed in newspaper/Finessing the King. There was a man dressed as Harlequin and Tuppence pointed him out. There was a Pierrot too. And one of my favourite Chrisitie adaptations ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEQKuVIAgK8

so everyone is of course welcome to spot Commedia dell'Arte chaarcters. Although I'm not sure if everyone else is as dedicated to it as we are :) :

 I was watching a tiny bit of Faulks On Fiction (because Bertie Wooster was featured) and there was a Punch and Judy show. Does that count? I don't like Mr Punch, his red nose indicates one of his favourite pastimes.

HarleyBarley 08 Mar 11 at 11:57 a.m. GMT

Long black robes, white mask with a long beak-like proboscis? Yes, that's Il Dottore, all right. The reason for his mask is that the real plague doctors would fill it with vinegar-soaked rags, to "keep the plague at bay". The mask was adapted for the Carnevale's Il Dottore, although it's worth noting that the Commedia dell'Arte Dottore doesn't usually wear that mask.

We can indeed start spotting Commedia dell'Arte characters everywhere! Not long ago, I spotted Il Dottore (Carnevale version) at a video game. Later I spotted a sinister Harlequin, and his female counterpart which is somehow called Hellequin and not Columbine or one of the latter's other names.

"World's greatest lover"? More like "world's most famous playboy". I doubt he's a good "lover" in the original sense of that word.

MissQuin 08 Mar 11 at 11:11 a.m. GMT

I amdit, found it very odd there was no Harlequin, or even a Pierrot. But it was a huge crowd and he may have been lurking about. But then, the point of Harlequin is he stands out in his bright rainbow motley! But I liked the film al lthe same, so I will almost forgive them. They did have Satan and Charles said to Julia "the Devil's got his eye on you".

There's a character I keep seeing in various adaptations and I'd love it if someone colud ideantify it. One was Jeeves and Wooster, Halloween Party and Brideshead Revisited. A gentleman dressed in an almost Jacobean style outfit, long coat, wig and a bird like white mask with a long beak. Is that a doctor?? The mask is is quite sinister...

When I watched Little Dorrit in Venice there was a flame eating, backflipping Harlequin. Very entertaining!  Of course I could start a Harlequin, Pierrot and Punch spotting contest now.

 Casanova not a man I admire. I like more quiet men and boasting "worlds greatest lover" is hardly modest ; )

HarleyBarley 08 Mar 11 at 6:25 a.m. GMT

Casanova is not someone who would be respected in modern society - not to the mainstream, at least. I've read (although the degree of truth in the article was undetermined) that he once even romanced a fourteen-year-old girl. The girl was consenting, and back at his time period she was considered a legal adult of sorts, but it was still nothing appropriate for today.

Venetian Carnevale! Now that's a more light-hearted subject. If they lacked a Harlequin, things must have been strange. Harlequin (Arlecchino) is one of the traditional Carnevale masks, along with Il Dottore (The Doctor... no, probably not that one) and several other Commedia dell'Arte characters. To utterly lack a Harlequin would just be odd.

MissQuin 07 Mar 11 at 5 p.m. GMT

I thought Casanova was Italian. I shudder to think what he was really like then. I watched a bit of a film about Beau Brummel once. Lord Byron was one of his friends. I also thought of Beau as I a kind or romantic figure, but in this adapt he was a beast! His (and his friends) attitude to women was appalling. And no I'd never want to find out anymore about Lord Byron, I know more than I want to

I did see Brideshead Revisited and that was a beautiful film. But I was left feeling very sad by it. Sebastian Flyte's character was of such contrasts, yet so compelling. A self proclaimed sinner, but at the same time childlike. Part of the story was set in Venice and there was a carnival/maskerrade but there wans't any Harlequin. 

Darknight- I'd like to know what your odd idea about Parker Pyne is, but I will have to wait!

 spammers- it's really bad and hopefully, somethnig will be doen about it.

NightRayDuck 06 Mar 11 at 10:23 p.m. GMT

Number3, I haven't made a study of historical facts about Casanova, but I think I know what you mean. Long narratives about real-life criminals probably weren't very popular back in his days, so the publishers and story-writers just end up picking out the pretty bits and lavishly embroidering them, turning the man into some sort of a romantic legend.

Miss Quin, my idea about a Parker Pyne novel is rather odd, I'll have to post it later. At the moment, I am thinking that "The Case of the Distressed Lady" would make a very good hour-long adaptation TV episode.

Number3 06 Mar 11 at 2:05 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn,  Casanova was Italian.  He was born in Venice.  The real Casanova was worse than the legend.

If he were alive today, he would be out at Broadmoor or some similar institution. 

Ian Kelly recently wrote a very good biography of this notorious man.  So now when someone tells me that they want to be like Casanova I ask them to find out who he really was before making that statement.

Also, is there anything that can be done about the spammers?  I don't dare go the Westmacott section anymore because it is over run.

MissQuin 04 Mar 11 at 3:09 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

I see I'm not the only one who's been annoyed with the spam. It's all but driven me away from here. It's unbelievably obnoxious stuff. Here you are, seeing that someone has posted in a topic you find interesting, you open it, and it's nothing but a spambot saying something stupid ("I like how you started with your thoughts and then ended with them.") and posting a link. *rolls eyes*

I'm in total agreement. It really can't continue like this can it?

Harley Barley -sorry I missed your post about TTWN casting. I think Alan Rickman wolud make a excellent Chrisitie villian. I remember on the Hitchcock thread, Pongo came up with a fantastic fantsty TTWN cast. It used all the great actors from Hitchock films.

Darknight- I recently read Parker Pyne and I found it an easy book to read. What do you think a full length Parker Pyne novel wolud have been like?

I hoping the casting will be annoucned for the latest Chrisite adapts, at least it will get the forum talking!

NightRayDuck 04 Mar 11 at 7:52 a.m. GMT

I've just finished reading the collection "Parker Pyne Investigates". It's rather wonderful the way that he doesn't care about his own pride or fame, and does whatever odd little thing to help his clients... or refund / decline a fee when his client isn't happy.

go_leafs_nation 03 Mar 11 at 7:56 p.m. GMT

I see I'm not the only one who's been annoyed with the spam. It's all but driven me away from here. It's unbelievably obnoxious stuff. Here you are, seeing that someone has posted in a topic you find interesting, you open it, and it's nothing but a spambot saying something stupid ("I like how you started with your thoughts and then ended with them.") and posting a link. *rolls eyes*

MissQuin 03 Mar 11 at 2:50 p.m. GMT

sorry, again I've been absent and yes, all we are still up to eye in spam posts!

Was Casanova Italian? I've no idea, I wasn't sure if he was partly real, part myth like Robin hood.

darknight- I love the T&T Partners in Criem serires, but I've not managed to get hold of a second hand copy of the book

I have Brideshead revisited to watch next week. It's the recent verison. I already know the whole story though. I liked Matthew Goode in Murder Is Announced anyway, so I'll probably enjoy it!

NightRayDuck 28 Feb 11 at 11:27 p.m. GMT

I finished reading Tommy & Tuppence in "Partners in Crime". It's such fun! 

Number3 26 Feb 11 at 5:51 p.m. GMT

Harley it's about Casanova, but in a way his whole life was a bit of a mystery.

HarleyBarley 26 Feb 11 at 3:55 p.m. GMT

Spam does get annoying. Except for Monty Python's Spam, in which case it was hilarious.

I've never seen "Casanova's Love Letters". Is it a mystery?

Number3 26 Feb 11 at 3:12 p.m. GMT

Hey everybody,

  What is happening to the website?  All these crazy spammers are showing up.  The abuse is very bad in the Westmacott section.  There is even one in the misce. section.  We have to take our site back befoe it gets really crazy.

Currently I'm watching "Casanova's Love Letters" with Patrick Bergin.  Has anyone else seen it?

HarleyBarley 24 Feb 11 at 4:08 p.m. GMT

Nice question on ATTWN adaptations. Let's try imagining an adaptation; who would you cast as who, Miss Quin? Me, I'm somewhat considering Alan Rickman as someone in there, possibly even Justice Wargrave.

MissQuin 24 Feb 11 at 4:04 p.m. GMT

No it's not dead Harley, or I hope not.  I'm sorry I missed your reply Darknight. It must have been way down the list of recent posts. Blame those spammers!

I wonder if the version I saw of TTWN is the same? Yes everyone was always decently covered, but I was sure there was bath mention. I don't remember Blore being in his..ahem, state of undress either.  Odd...

If they remade TTWN now I wonder what it would be like? Maybe the adaptation would be very Noir and serious like the recent Poirot adapts. I liked the old fim version, because although it hadn't lost it's dark edge, it was stilll very funny!

I wonder if there's certain interests that alot of Agatha Chrisite fans share? Obvioulsy everyone's different. True I've not met anyone who loves Metal music and Miss Marple like I do..

But alot of Chrisitie fans like PG Wodehouse, Hitchcock and Jane Austen. I can see some simularities in those.

anyway. I've got to go now, but I'll make sure to check this topic next time I'm here.

HarleyBarley 24 Feb 11 at 3:55 p.m. GMT

...is this thread dead? We'll need to investigate how and when it died.

NightRayDuck 21 Feb 11 at 5:33 p.m. GMT

about the various peeping-through-keyhole moments in the 1945 "And Then There Were None" movie... the first one I saw in my edition was after Lombard and Blore found out that their rooms were next to each other and that each bedroom had a door leading to the same, shared bathroom, and then Lombard gets dressed and shouts "Blore! The bathroom is yours!" and leaves the room, and Blore, still only in undershirt, pants, and shaving foam on his face, peeps through the keyhole to check whether Lombard had really left the room. There were various other keyhole moments with more participants, but all the participants were decently covered, and none appeared to be still trying to dry off. 

NightRayDuck 21 Feb 11 at 5:24 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

about the building structure in Murder in Mesopotamia... I think that may actually have been the reason that Christie set the story in that part of the world, in an area where that type of building would be quite ordinary for characters from the US, the UK, and other parts of Europe (so that the characters look sufficiently familiar to the readers).

I mean, murders by this method had been committed where and when I was growing up, and it went out of fashion only when craftsmen went into business and went down the streets promoting the cheap and effective lattice work (iron, very solid) casing to be installed outside all windows and balconies, at around the same time that the police started publishing crime statistics detailing the methods of burglars and the type of homes more frequently burgled (ex. 3rd floor in a multi-storey building of flats).

MissQuin 21 Feb 11 at 2:10 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

darknightofrays

I just watched my copy of the "And Then There Were None" movie adapt directed by Rene Clair in 1945, but I did not see any bath scene as mentioned once in the "guess the adapt" game. I did see Blore watching Lombard in various states of, eh, putting on clothes. Is my copy still abridged from the original movie? Either way it was a very fun movie. 

yes that was me. I watched it on TV. It's odd as I could swear Lommard said something like "I'm going for a bath". Then he leaves the room. Then Blore peers through the keyhole! But we don't see him in the bath it was just mentioned, or I think it was... It is a brillaint film, darkly funny. I've no idea if the DVd you had was edited for some reason.

Murder In Mesopotamia- SPOILERS: I think what is hard for some people to acept is someone finding the right type of building to kill someone in that way. You wolud need the roof, the balcony etc. It's a lot of hard work!

NightRayDuck 18 Feb 11 at 9:36 p.m. GMT

Noticed another odd thing... someone who loves Murder in Mesopotamia still says it's improbable but not impossible? I think it's both probable and possible. People, in general, are gullible because it's easier to believe a statement that sounds ok, and to use that statement as part of the foundation for the rest of the deduction / investigation. Also, notice that the murderer in this story had once been spying for a foreign power during war time. Even if he hadn't been trained explicitly and lengthily by a spy department of any government, some cunning and quick-thinking would still be very necessary to his survival and his efficiency as a spy. The only slightly special element is that he has been obsessed with his victim for decades... but a spurned / betrayed obsessive lover badgering or harming the object of desire happens quite often in real life, yes? "It's all in the newspapers" (paraphrased from Dame Agatha's introduction to Passenger to Frankfurt). I don't think there are many Christie stories that are from beginning to end impossible, or even highly improbable. It's simply that, many individual types of incidents that are found in the real world, have been stringed together in a work of fiction.

NightRayDuck 18 Feb 11 at 8:49 p.m. GMT

I just realized, after watching the 1945 And Then There Were None, that the "nursery rhyme" in the case really had a rhythm to it, and was in rhyming couplets, for example "Six... playing with a hive, one... and then there were five". It was good, seeing that character playing the piano and attempting to sing the nursery rhyme. 

mysteryfan18 18 Feb 11 at 12:18 a.m. GMT

Yes, it was. Although, probably the best film adapt was Witness for the Prosecution.  It had a great plot, with just enough comic relief (the scenes with Sir Wilfred Scott & the nurse bantering were great! They were married, which helps explain that)

NightRayDuck 17 Feb 11 at 1:01 a.m. GMT

I just watched my copy of the "And Then There Were None" movie adapt directed by Rene Clair in 1945, but I did not see any bath scene as mentioned once in the "guess the adapt" game. I did see Blore watching Lombard in various states of, eh, putting on clothes. Is my copy still abridged from the original movie? Either way it was a very fun movie. 

Number3 15 Feb 11 at 2:55 p.m. GMT

I've seen "Downton Abbey" it was rather enjoyable.  It was written by the author of "Gosford Park." 

USDS is going to be on latter this spring.  I have yet to see the original, so I don't think I will watch the new one.

Currently I'm watching the first season of "New Tricks" and them I'm going to watch "The Age of Stupid."

NightRayDuck 15 Feb 11 at 6:57 a.m. GMT

hmm, for the recent "Sherlock" series, I'd like to advise anyone who hasn't seen it yet to keep in mind that it is not meant as "Sherlock Holmes being cryopreserved or time-jumped into the 21st century". It is about someone in the 21st century who happens to be named Sherlock Holmes, and who happens to have the same type of career, and similar eccentricities and modern equivalents as the original Sherlock Holmes. This "Sherlock" doesn't even claim the original Sherlock Holmes as an ancestor, I think.

MILD SPOILER in explaining several scenes from "Sherlock" series and Guy Ritchie's "Sherlock Holmes" movie:

In the "Sherlock Holmes" movie, there are some slow-motion scenes that mostly portray Sherlock Holmes thinking out the next few moves he would use in a fight.

Similarly, in the "Sherlock" series, Sherlock sometimes recalls into his mind the street maps of London while chasing some criminal or suspect. This Sherlock is also rather addicted to text-messaging on a mobile phone, and going on the internet. Some scenes are rather crammed with captions and street maps floating around.

I have an uncle who only saw the "Sherlock Holmes" trailer and had thereby refused to watch the movie, because he thought it's going to be science-fiction-y action like "The Matrix". And he enjoyed "Sherlock" until the scene where there were many neon-colored lines on the screen depicting the street maps that Sherlock is thinking of. My uncle thought it meant this Sherlock had his head wirelessly connected to Google Maps or some such.. 

MissQuin 14 Feb 11 at 3:25 p.m. GMT

I have so many DVD's and so little time to watch them. sighs. Anyway I realised I must watch Nicholas Nickleby soon, because the recordings taking up room on my set box.

Number 3- sounds good, look forward to watching OMF and TWWLN.

has anyone seen Downton Abbey? I think it's just been shown worldwide and it's very good. I saw the new Upstairs Dowstairs, which was set  in 1930's. I thought I'd like it as I love that era. It was complete and utter rubbish! I never saw part 2. Not a patch on Poirot or anyother 30's dramas actually.

Number3 11 Feb 11 at 3:52 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn I have seen both of those films and they are wonderful.

I've got "The Edge of Darkness" in my player now.  I first saw it when it came out on VHS, and I'm looking forwad to seeing it on DVD.

MissQuin 08 Feb 11 at 3:42 p.m. GMT

Land Girls series 2 was on this year in England.  It's shown in the daytime here, so lot's of people miss it. Very odd.

I'd love to see any version of OCS. I have Our Mutal Friend lined up to watch, which stars Keely Hawes and Paul? McGann. Also The Way We Live Now which stars David Suchet. Has anyone else seen these?

I finnished Parker Pyne which was a fun book.

Number3 08 Feb 11 at 1:17 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn it was the series from 2009. 

Also, I recently purchased a DVD of "The Old Curiosity Shop" starring Peter Ustinov, Tom Courtenay,and James Fox.  This version was made in 1995.

I am looking forward to seeing this version.

MissQuin 06 Feb 11 at 3:27 p.m. GMT

Was that the series with Nathaniel Parker? I remember somethnig about Land Girls on a few years ago. I'm afraid I only watched two episodes and gave up on it. Some of the acting was questionale. Although I think NP was very good in his role. At least 4 of the actors in it have been in Chrisite adapts.

If it is this series it was made about 2009?? and there was another serires 2011 which I didn't see.

Number3 06 Feb 11 at 2:31 p.m. GMT

I finished watching "Land Girls" last night.  Was it only on for one series or were there others?

Number3 27 Jan 11 at 2:34 p.m. GMT

GKC "The Agatha Christie Mystery" was written by Derrick Murdoch and it was published in 1976 by Pagurian Press Limited.  It looks like it is a small vanity publisher.

But the most interesting thing about it is, that on the information page it says it's a Christopher Ondaatje publication.

I goggled Murdoch and found out that he was one of the driving forces behind setting up The Canadian Crime Writers Association.

So I am looking forward to reading this bio.

I saw the David Tennant version of "Hamlet" last night.  All I can say is "Wow"

MissQuin 26 Jan 11 at 11:53 a.m. GMT

 I have Agatha Christie An English Mystery by Laura Thomspson. That's quite good. Also once read The Missing Days by Jared Cade which was interesting although the facts were based on heresay, so not reliable.

GKCfan 25 Jan 11 at 9:46 p.m. GMT

I can't find this book– who wrote it?  I've heard of the Gwen Robyns book "The Mystery of Agatha Christie," but not "The Agatha Christie Mystery."

Number3 25 Jan 11 at 1:55 p.m. GMT

I've seen that version of "Ordeal" 

I don't know if I'm alone in this opinion, but after reading all the AC's I can't watch the TV adaptations anymore.  After seeing what happened with "Geranium" I got very upset.  I refused to watch "Appointment With Death." The aired story will speak for itself.

I did dig up the book "The Agatha Christie Mystery" at the local library. GCK have you read it, or has anyone else?

MissQuin 23 Jan 11 at 3:42 p.m. GMT

Number3

Miss Quinn are you thinking of the Great Expectations film that had Gweneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawk?  That film is loosely based on the novel.

Yes, Burn Gorman is a wonderful Mr. Guppy. 

Sorry missed your post number 3. No I meant the 2000? version with Justine Wardell as Estella. I've read lot's of reviews but people either love it or hate it. I know they added a "tragic childhood" for Miss Haverhsam. That doesn't seem right- just because someone behaves badly doesn't mean they have to have a bad chidhood! I assumed she was just seems to be suffering from a mental inness, which was triggered by the failed wedding. But then I'm no expert.

I've not seeen the modern day version. I love costume dramas and it's very rare that I like an updating of a story. It looses alot of the beutiful dialogue for a start. Plus I love old costumes.

Bleak House- I just love the 2007? version so much. I think I could watch it 100 times and not tire of it. It's funny how at least 3 of the cast appeared in the Marple Ordeal By Innocene. That episode started so well and for me was spoilt by the introduction of Miss Marple. Again Burn Gorman seemed to be made for the part of Jacko. Has anyone else seeen it?

I have lots of Chrisite's lined up to read, Evans, Parker Pyne, Crooked House (sadly the end has been spoilt for me).

Number3 23 Jan 11 at 3:14 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

GK thank you for your input.  I will keep what you said in mind while I'm reading it.  What I have heard about the book is that Bayard is trying to put his his own stamp on the story by giving it his personal views on the human psyche and psychology.

GKCfan 20 Jan 11 at 8:20 p.m. GMT

I did not care for Who Killed Roger Ackroyd?  It's a postmodern deconstruction of the book attempting to disprove the solution, but though perhaps the author was trying to come across as tongue-in-cheek and playful, the book came across as supercilious and pedantic.  Bottom line, I'll take Poirot's solution over Bayard any day.

Number3 20 Jan 11 at 1:24 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn are you thinking of the Great Expectations film that had Gweneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawk?  That film is loosely based on the novel.

Yes, Burn Gorman is a wonderful Mr. Guppy. 

Has anyone read "Who Killed Roger Ackroyd?"  I have that in my reading queue and I am curious about it.

TheButlerDidIT 19 Jan 11 at 3:49 p.m. GMT

Wow, doesn't look like I've missed an awful lot. I really, really didn't want to like Sherlock. Being a huge fan of the books, I was worried that Holmes would be transformed into a horrible drug addict. I should have had more faith in the series creator's, Steven Moffat and Mark Gatis, both lifelong Sherlock fans.

MissQuin 18 Jan 11 at 3:57 p.m. GMT

@Number 3- I love the most recent version of Bleak House. I've never seen any other versions nor read the book though. But I think the casting was inspired, becasue the acting was so superb. Gillian Anderson was an incrediable Lady Deadlock. She acted with her eyes. Also loved Burn Gorman as Guppy, he was very funny. Charles Dance was utterly chilling as Mr Tulkinghorn! Oh and Shake Me Up Judy is hysterical!

Has anyone seen the 1999? version of Great Expectations? I've heard it's pretty gloomy, but I don't know much else.

mysteryfan18 17 Jan 11 at 1:27 a.m. GMT

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WHAT?!? A decoy Moriarty?!? How have I missed this?? (It IS possible, though...) Anyway, if anyone's interested I know the 3 stories referenced by the clues. They are:

1) A Scandel in Bohemia (very good)

2) The Hound of the Baskervilles (also very good)

3) The Final Problem (not the best, but the ending... GASP! It's too early)

I cannot wait!!!!

Number3 16 Jan 11 at 3:40 p.m. GMT

I enjoyed "Sherlock" as well.  I think that Rupert Graves did a good turn as a modern Lestrade.  I'm looking forward to the second season.  But, it might take awhile to broadcast in the States.

I finished watching the 1985 version of "Bleak House" and I'm considering who did the best performance of Bucket.  If it was Ian Hogg in this version or Alun  Armstrong in the 2005 version.

GKCfan 16 Jan 11 at 12:33 a.m. GMT

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Yes, I had very low hopes for Sherlock, so I was surprised and delighted when I LOVED it.  By the way, there's some evidence that "Jim" may not be the real Moriarty.  Remember, in "The Great Game" the blind bombing victim said her assailant had a soft, low voice... not at all like Jim's.  There's some hypothesizing amongst fans that "Jim" is just a decoy of the real Moriarty's, acting as his public face while the real criminal mastermind pulls strings behing the scenes.

The producers have given three nice clues for the three episodes of the second season of Sherlock: "Adler, Hound, & Reichenbach."  Sounds promising!

mysteryfan18 15 Jan 11 at 11:58 p.m. GMT

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen Masterpiece's Sherlock, starring Benedict Cumberbatch as Holmes and Martin Freeman as Dr. Watson? If not, I highly recommend it. Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss did an EXCELLENT job modernizing the great detective (although I absolutely loathe their portrayal of Moriarty).

Number3 13 Jan 11 at 1:24 p.m. GMT

I found the Diana Rigg version of "Bleak House" at the library and have it in my watching queue.

I finished the Josephine Tey that I was reading and started a piece of fiction called "The Madonnas of Lenningrad."  Part of the story is set during WWII at The Hermitage Museum.  So far it's very good.

MissQuin 10 Jan 11 at 3:52 p.m. GMT

Ive not seen "The Buccaneers". It was reshown in a few years ago at a silly hour on ITV3. I wolud love to see The Aristrocrats.

I was watching a programme At Home With The Georgians. It was pretty odd the things they did. They were so heavily into weird beliefs that they'd brick live chckens up in the walls. It's so cruel but how could anyone stand the noise?! Another tale was in the Old Bailey of a fire that broke out. A cat was blamed because it "had supernatural powers"!!!. Madness.

I'm reading ah istory book atm. Then I'll read Why Didn't They Ask Evans.

Number3 09 Jan 11 at 2:39 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn, I agree with you about Toby Stephens.  As for films have you seen "The Buccaneers"? It's based on an Edith Wharton novel and you might enjoy it.  The BBC did a version of it in 1995. 

So far "The Floating Admiral" is rather interesting.  Next on the list is The Man in the Queue" by Josephine Tey.

Westmacott 06 Jan 11 at 5:29 p.m. GMT

Hi,

a bit late from me, but thanks for the info.

Westmacott

MissQuin 06 Jan 11 at 3:45 p.m. GMT

To Mr West- Ackroyd is the first full length AC book I read. I had never read or heard anythnig about it. I love how AC paints a clear image of village life. I also love Caroline, she's just a brillaint character. Very well written story.

I did see Jane Eyre but I wasn't as keen on it as other versions. For a start so much was cut out. I also thought Joan Fontaine was rather too pretty. Alot of the darkness had been taken out, which may have been suited to the 40's. Ive seen 4 version and Ive never been entirely happy with any of them! There's always been some flaw. But I think Toby Stephens is my favourite Mr Rochester.

Now I'm not sure what to watch next.  I might watch Jonathan Creek, any one else like that?  

Number3 06 Jan 11 at 3:13 p.m. GMT

Miss Quinn one of their joint ventures was "the Wreck of The Golden Mary." Hesperus put out an edition of in in 2006. 

I finally finished AC's "Autobiography."  So now it's time to wait for the new "Notebooks" and hope that more of the obscure plays get published someday soon.

Mr_west 06 Jan 11 at 2:36 p.m. GMT

hi guys!

i boght yesterday a copy of the murder of roger ackroyd! (which is realy hard to find here) 

i started to read i hope it will be good.

anyone can tell me (withouht spoilers) what he love/hate about the book?

and the murderer idenety is realy surprising?

MissQuin 04 Jan 11 at 5:43 p.m. GMT

I'm recording Jane Eyre. I expect it's good, as alot of old films didn't usually try and modernise old classics.

I'm a huge fan of classic books, I hardly read anything else. Bronte, Gaskell, Austen, Henry James, Hardy are among my favourites.

Yes I think that Dickens asked Collins to write pieces in Household Works? The moonstone is a unusual story and I liked reading it. 

I watched Whistle and I'll come to you, a version of MR James. It was pretty dull! has anyone heard of it?

Number3 04 Jan 11 at 2:44 p.m. GMT

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Ms Quinn I think the 1940's version of Jane Eyre has Orson Wells and Joan Fontain in it.  If it's that one, it is a wonderful version.

There are two versions of WH that do touch upon some of the themes you mentioned.  A recent version by the BBC deals with them and a version with Ralph Finnes and Juliet Binoche from the 90's.  And yes, Heathcliff is a thug.

As you can guess I'm a big fan of 19th century literature.

I read the "Moonstone" a long time ago but, I do plan on reading it again.  Don't quote me on this but I think Dickens and Collins wrote a series of mystery stories together.

I'm still plugging away at the autobiography.  I'm at the part where AC is taking her first trip on the Orient Express.

MissQuin 03 Jan 11 at 10:50 a.m. GMT

Wishing everyone a slightly belated New Year! I hope you enjoyed yourselves?

Hitchock- there is a whole topic on here where ac fans were discussing his films and which Chrisite adapts we'd have liked him to take on.

I'm afraid I only ever tend to watch costume dramas, Chrisite, factual programmes. I never watch contempory dramas. Why I don't know, I'm too engrossed in history.

I read Wuthering Heights and I was completely unnerved by it. I'm not saying it's bad it's just it's image got blurred over the years. I think some of the early films glossed over the harsher stuff- child abuse, domestic violence, animal cruelty etc so it wasn't what I expected. I think Heathcliff is a thug.

I'm recording an old 40's version of Jane Eyre this week. That could be good, it'm my favourite book so ive seen countless version.

There's no literary channel here in the UK. Or at least if there is one you have to pay for it! If I want to see old dramas then I have to get the DVds. I really want to see The Moonstone- the version with Keeley Hawes and the delectable Greg Wise  Then I might get round to finally watching Orient express and all the new Marple, which Ive recorded and not had time to watch.

Number3 02 Jan 11 at 2:46 p.m. GMT

Miss Quin, I just saw the 1946 version of "Great Expectations."  And you were right.  This versions Miss Havisham is creepy.  After that played the station broadcasted the 1970 version of "Wuthering Heights." 

I was terrible and spent 7 hours watching television.  But I did get to see the two aforementioned films and "Moby Dick."  The station I was watching likes to broadcast more obscure versions  of literary classic films.  This past spring it aired the version of "Little Dorrit" that starred Derek Jacobi.

Now only if it would play "Endless Night" and other Christie films.

Number3 31 Dec 10 at 12:54 p.m. GMT

I love Suspicion and any film by Sir Alfred.  Too bad he never did any Christies. 

I'm still working on Autobiography.  I like to take my time with non-fiction.

I posted this on another topic page, but everyone if you get a chance please check out Betterworldbooks.com  Last time I checked they had 144+ pages of Christie stuff.  Also, the profits from the sales help support world literacy programs.

I'm currently watching season one of "Shameless."  How many season were there?

MissQuin 29 Dec 10 at 11:08 a.m. GMT

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Then There Were None 1945- yes some great lines in that film. Also some great visual jokes, which I can't explain as it wouldn't be the same.  I still haven't watched Orient Express or Secret of chimneys. I have my doubts if those are any good. But I chose to watch Hitchcock Suspicion instead yesterday evening, which I did really enjoy.

Plus I had some Chrisite books for xmas. I'm reading Adventure of The Xmas Pudding, which is good. The trunk murder is nest that always scares me on TV, it's horrible!

HarleyBarley 29 Dec 10 at 8:47 a.m. GMT

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@Westmacott: I've never seen that one before, but it seems that GKCfan already got you covered for it.

@Miss Quin: The play's ending, as always. At least not one of the game endings. 'Tis a bit more confusing. And the marmalade line was positively hilarious! That's a good addition to the script.

GKCfan 29 Dec 10 at 12:15 a.m. GMT

"Agatha" has just been released on DVD about a month and a half ago.  You can buy it at: http://www.amazon.com/Agatha-Dustin-Hoffman/dp/B003YPKBF2/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1293581692&sr=1-1

Westmacott 28 Dec 10 at 10:33 p.m. GMT

Hi everyone,Have you seen the film 'Agatha' (1979) with Vanessa Redgrave, Timothy Dalton and Dustin Hoffman?Does anyone know where to get it? I've seen it once and really loved it, but I just can't find it anywhere. Any suggestions?Thanks,Westmacott

MissQuin 28 Dec 10 at 4:02 p.m. GMT

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There There Were None- it was given the play's ending. But it did have many excellent one liners:

Emily Brent: Very stupid to kill the only servant in the house. Now we don't even know where to find the marmalade.

HarleyBarley 28 Dec 10 at 5:49 a.m. GMT

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I suppose it was Tiny Tim, but if I recall correctly Scrooge said that at the final chapter, too.

The usual ending, Miss Quin? The one with Vera and Philip?

MissQuin 27 Dec 10 at 12:11 p.m. GMT

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HarleyBarley

 And to quote Ebenezer Scrooge: God bless us everyone!

wasn't it Tiny Tim who said that? well it doesn't matter, happy holidays to everyone!

I recorded Orient Express but not watched it yet. I watched the old 1945 version of Then there Were None. That was good, it wasn't like the book though. But it was funny, it was more like an Ealing comdey with it's black comedy. Of course the end was changed by censorships.

HarleyBarley 25 Dec 10 at 3:54 p.m. GMT

Have a joyful Christmas, all who celebrate it! And those who don't - well, happy holidays anyway. And to quote Ebenezer Scrooge: God bless us everyone!

Number3 25 Dec 10 at 1:49 p.m. GMT

Harley the character is death in all his glory.  The good old grim reaper himself. 

I hope that everyone in Europe is dealing with the snow alright.  The states got smacked again last night into early this morning. And, it's still going.  Let us hope that a warm up comes soon for everyone.

My local library is going to be getting a bunch of Josephine Tey books, so guess who put their name down to be first in the queue.

How has everyone enjoyed the new AC's on ITV?

HarleyBarley 24 Dec 10 at 1:46 p.m. GMT

The Book Thief, eh? Sounds like an interesting topic for a story. And with Death as a main character - do you mean Death in human (or not necessarily human) form, or someone quite human using "Death" as a pseudonym?

@Miss Quin: Thanks for the encouragement. I've made a few jokes about the recent full moon (at the 21st) and my conditon, saying that I'm really a werewolf and howling at a select few. It was cheering.

Number3 23 Dec 10 at 1:14 p.m. GMT

"A Dance to The Music of Time" was an epic 12 book cycle written by Anthony Powell.  It starts during the first world war and ends in the 1970's.

The series was originally broadcast on Channel 4 around 1997.   I thought that it had a great cast with a big stand out performance by Paul Rhys.

Right now I'm reading "The Book Thief" by Markus Zusak, a rather interesting author from Australia.  It's set during the second world war and features "Death" as a main character. So far it's rather interesting.

Everyone who is watching the new Christie's on ITV please take them with a grain of salt.  We can talk about them after the broadcast.

MissQuin 23 Dec 10 at 12:52 p.m. GMT

I'm sending a friendly virtual hug your way Harley, in the hope of lifting your spirits.

anyway I'll be away for Xmas, but with all the Christie adapts on TV I'll have something to say about those!

HarleyBarley 22 Dec 10 at 2:13 p.m. GMT

I haven't heard of A Dance to the Music of Time before. One can possibly blame my location for it. What's it about?

@Miss Quin: I certainly hope the weather doesn't do you badly! It's no more than rain and wind here, but I've been somewhat under the weather the last few days.

MissQuin 22 Dec 10 at 10:23 a.m. GMT

Ive not seen it, I think it might be by Dennis potter, or maybe I'm miixed up. Is it set 50's England?

More snow here! Means I can't go far.  I think I'll watch Scrooge with Alistair Sim later.

Number3 21 Dec 10 at 4:53 p.m. GMT

I'm putting "A Dance to The Music of Time" in my player.  Has anyone seen it?