Have Your Say

Non-series Books and Characters

Other Christie books discussions

Mr Satterthwaite - nuts?

AndThenThereWereToon 31 May 09 at 12:19 p.m. GMT

("Hi Christie Talk - long-time listener, first-time caller...")

I have a pet theory about Mr Satterthwaite and Harley Quin.  Mr S is famously observant, but only seems able to personally solve crimes when his mysterious friend Mr Quin appears from nowhere, points out what he's already noticed and then disappears just as suddenly.  Could it be a case of split personalities?

The one problem I can see with this is that other characters see Quin and Mr S together and interact with them both, but then if these stories are told exclusively from Mr S's point of view, we probably would see exactly what he thinks we ought to have seen...

We already know Quin is a supernatural character ("a spokesman for the dead" etc etc) - might he not be an entirely imaginary one?

Login or register to add posts and reply

20 replies

Reverse order

GKCfan 31 May 09 at 4:43 p.m. GMT

That's an interesting take on the Satterthwaite/Quin relationship, and you definitely make some great points.  We do know that other characters can see and talk to Quin, but the stories aren't exactly narrated by Satterthwaite.  Satterthwaite's detecting skills are not nearly as present in "Murder in Three Acts," without Quin.  

Personally, I see the two men as complementary, both reflecting opposite qualities of the other.  For example, S. observes and rarely engages, and Q.'s mission is to interfere.

Then again, Harlequin is "invisible"... maybe Quin is like Harvey for S.

Tommy_A_Jones 01 Jun 09 at 1:30 p.m. GMT

Another brilliant idea AndThenTherewas Toon, as Mr S tells the stories there is no other evidence that the characters see 2 people as it could just mean that they see 2 sides to the same person and if they are different shapes which from peoples casting idea that would suggest Mr Q might look like what Mr S wishes he looked like, I was read this when in Hospital so can't quite remember what they look like but am I right in thinking Mr S is fat and Mr Q is thin? 

AndThenThereWereToon 01 Jun 09 at 2:31 p.m. GMT

Yes, I seem to recall (from reading Three Act Tragedy only last week) that Mr S is about fifty-ish, described as being like a "pixie" (?!) - I got the impression he might be quite like Poirot physically, i.e. short and tubby.  I think Mr Quin is more of the "dashing young chap" type, although it's been a very long time since I read any Quin short stories.  Certainly could be wish fulfilment on Mr S's part.

I realise Mr S doesn't actually narrate the stories, but he is the only viewpoint character - that's where I'm coming from.  Eh well, my theories are often let down by the facts... :)

Incidentally, GKCfan, if I start referring to "Harvey Quin" I'm blaming you.

Tommy_A_Jones 01 Jun 09 at 2:37 p.m. GMT

That doesn't make them less interesting though AndThenThereWere Toon

GKCfan 01 Jun 09 at 7:40 p.m. GMT

I take full responsibility for any and all references to "Harvey Quin," AndTenThereWasToon.

HarleyBarley 24 Jun 09 at 5:41 a.m. GMT

An interesting theory, AndThenThereWereToon. Quite an interesting theory.

I agree with GKCFan's comment regarding Mr Satterthwaite's depletion of deduction during the events of Three Act Tragedy. Without the catalyst, the chemicals do not react. In much the same way, without Harley Quin, Satterthwaite cannot deduce as well.

Is it possible to even discuss the matter? As we all know, the Harley Quin stories are classified as "supernatural" (even involving the mystery of how a living man can speak through a seance) and not merely "detective". Quin is what he is: a queer bird, a man of magic, a magician, and - most of all - a Harlequin. It is altogether possible that he is a person, physical and existant, acting through Mr Satterthwaite but not Satterthwaite only.

Bundle_ 21 Sep 09 at 5:25 p.m. GMT

AndThenThereWereToon

I got the impression he might be quite like Poirot physically, i.e. short and tubby. 

Interesting take. For me I thought almost the complete opposite: that pixie meant rather short and wispy or thin.

MissQuin 20 Dec 09 at 1:13 p.m. GMT

I was very sceptical before I read the Mr Quin stories, as they sounded so far fetched. But I really enjoyed them. I liked the fact Agatha Chrsitie dedicated the stories to Harlequin the Invisible, as though he was meant to be a real character. My worst fear is that the TV Marple will replace Mr Satterthwaite!! Can anyone imagine what that would be like?!

HarleyBarley 23 Apr 10 at 10:31 a.m. GMT

I agree with Miss Quin. To have someone replace Mr Satterthwaite will be...a rather disagreeable decision, so to say.

I, too, was rather fond of the idea of dedicating the book to Harlequin. As a dancer who has once danced with an imaginary Harlequin as a child, I still find the idea lovely.

Mattimus 14 Jul 10 at 5:30 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

Wondering whats your personal take on harlequins lane? The ending made me feel unnerved, Mr Quinn seemed dark and forboding. Every time i reread that story I still see it as him taking Satterthwaites life at the end. ( and yes i know he comes back in three act tragedy). And as for your Imaginary friend split personality idea, i think it works with my idea that satterthwaite was gay and that he may have created this beautifull magical man apearing in his life on and off.

MissQuin 14 Jul 10 at 8:55 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

Mr Quin spoilers

Yes, I was unsettled by Harlequin's lane as I always saw Mr Q as someone who you can depend upon. A benevolent romantic hero, who always appears to make everything ok. But then he's there and acting as the Grim Repear. It left me startled and slightly saddened.

But I don't think Mr Satterthwaite is gay. I wouldn't mind if he was. It's just that we read his thoughts. He's never thought "phooooar! look at that sexy young fellow!!" or anything like that! He might comment on a man's attractiveness, but it's seems to me, like an art form to him. Not a lustful feel. Also other people talk to Mr Quin. The artist girl actually "saw" Mr Quin in his motley outfit.

I think Chrisite was doing something that was different. She actually enjoyed writing the Quin stories. So she could indulge in her fantasy- the Harlequin that had captivated her as a child. The stories might seem too unreal for crime fans. So I think crime readers look for a more everyday logical aspect to the Quin stories. That Mr Quin only exists in Satterthwaite mind and is a psycological applration, caused by a repressed desire or something.

Not that there's anything worng with that. We all have our own views. I think that in Mr Satterthwaite's world, Harley Quin was real.

Love to know what Harley thinks. (my fellow Mr Quin fan) he always sums up stories with wisdom.

HarleyBarley 15 Jul 10 at 8:27 a.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

First things first, allow me to thank Miss Quin for the compliments. You have always been appreciative, perhaps even a little too much so for me. I am not all that wise, allow me to assure you.

Harlequin's Lane Spoilers!

Due to some queer reading habit of mine, Harlequin's Lane is among the first of Harley Quin's stories for me to read, and I must admit it took me by surprise. Reading the stories in the order they were written actually strengthened the sensation - the gradual acceptance of Mr Quin from a mysterious stranger to the benevolent patron of lovers, the knowledge of the preciously few trivia we know about him, and then, out of a sudden - there he stands, forebodingly mysterious once more, having all so very easily taken Anna's life. It was then that the gravity of the story I had read first struck me.

All in all, though, I tend to think of Harley Quin not as Mr Satterthwaite's imaginary friend or something of that sort. Miss Quin has given an excellent idea as to why we tend to think that way. I prefern to look at him from another viewpoint: what if the legendary Harlequin does really exist, and that Harley Quin is merely a manifestation of the Harlequin?

Oh, and apologies for the length. It seems that I have gotten carried away.

Mattimus 15 Jul 10 at 9:26 p.m. GMT

Thanks guys, i love your replys, I agree with your view of Mr Quin. Although I still think old Satterthwaite was gay, from how often she mentions how he knows too much about the effeminate side or whatnot, ( I thought it was as much of a wink to the reader as she could do in 1930) But thats a topic for another night i would imagine.

MissQuin 16 Jul 10 at 3:16 p.m. GMT

 There are character's that I think of as homosexual and it wasn't unheard of to have gat characters in 20's 30's books. (Waugh etc)

Ah, well some people consider Poirot as gay, so I can see that people *MIGHT* see Mr S too. But I personally don't think so. I see Mr s as a man ahead of his time. He was very much in touch with his fememine side. Which back then (and now to some) mean's he must be gay!

I wonder about Three Act Tragedy- should Mr Satterthwaite have been in it? I love him, but it then meant that Mr Quin and Poirot exist in the same world. Which seems strange to me. If Mr S hadn't been in TAT I think people would find it easier to accept the fantastical events that take place in Satterthwaite's world. Also it's a shame that Mr Quin doesn't appear with Satterthwaite. As Mr S doesn't solve the crime, it means he can't manage so well without his guide.

I read Three act, before the Mr Quin stories. So I wasn't sure of Mr Satterthwaite's palce i nthe events that happened. But I did love finding out about Mr Satterthaite's Great Love. :)

In printing of the Mr Quin stories are rather odd. I have The Mysterious Mr Quin book of stories. But it didn't include The H Tea Set or The Love Detectives. So I had to buy another edtion with it in!

Anyway in Harlequin's tea set, we finally have more of a description of Mr Q. He's tall, broad back, muscular, dark hair. Eariler said dark eyes, sad smile.

HarleyBarley 16 Jul 10 at 3:33 p.m. GMT

I also wonder about the Three Act Tragedy mystery. But most of Christie's works do seem to co-exist in the same universe. Characters from the Poirots, Mr Quins, and Miss Marples have intersected at varius points (I can't say for sure about Parker Pynes or Tommy and Tuppences).

Yes, I've tried throughout my reading to gather as much as I can abotu the elusive Harley Quin, and it does amount more or less to what Miss Quin listed. Besides from what was said in The Harlequin Tea Set, there was also the fact that he was a *gulp* dancer (Harlequin's Lane), and a few more odds and ends that sadly escapes my mind as of present.

MissQuin 16 Jul 10 at 3:38 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

I think Mr Quin was described as good looking. Or I always think of him so. As a fantasy friend of lovers. It makes sense that he should be striking and have a Adonis like quality to him.

Poirot is mentioned in T&T, Ive never read all those yet. I was looking for the elusive second clue and saw it mentioned. Mrs Oliver is in Parker Pyne. So Ive learned some info off here.

HarleyBarley 16 Jul 10 at 3:41 p.m. GMT

Yes, Miss Quin, I believe he was described as tall, dark, and handsome, the ever-so-classic attractive gentleman sort one sees every so often in the romances of old. It's a good thing Christie never described exactly how "handsome" handsome is, e.g. "high brows", "square jaw", &c, so the readers can mold Harley Quin into whatever shape they will.

Never read Three Act Tragedy yet? I've read it, and I must say it was somewhat interesting, with Mr Satterthwaite trying to recount the tale as told in At the Bells and Motley, with little success.

MissQuin 16 Jul 10 at 3:47 p.m. GMT

No sorry I misled you. Ive read Three Act Tragedy. I havent read T&T as in Tommy and Tuppence.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which as you say Harley, is why it's good that Mr Quin was never desribed in detail. I have to use my imagination for what he looks like...

HarleyBarley 16 Jul 10 at 4 p.m. GMT

Oh, forgive the misinterpetation.

I had a question to ask you, Miss Quin, but I've transplanted it to the discussions thread to avoid distracting this one.

MissQuin 11 Aug 10 at 2:57 p.m. GMT

I thought I'd also add that Poirot met Mr S in Three Act Tragedy and Dean Man's mirror. I'm sure poirot, being so clever, would notice if Mr Satterthwaite wasn't quite sane. Admitedly Poirot's eccentric himself, but doesn't mean he can't spot another person who isn't all there. Plus Harley Quin never appeared in Three Act Tragedy, so if Mr S had fantasies all the time, he'd have had one then.

I assume Mr Quin being a supernatural being knew Poirot would solve the case with no need for him to appear!