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Murder On The Orient Express

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Ms_Kylie_Menage 13 Jul 10 at 5:38 a.m. GMT

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I've just seen the new Orient Express film and can't sleep as a result...so many things are on my mind! They should have given credit to Paul Dehn as where the original film deviated from the book, so did the new one - even Mrs Hubbard's line about drachmas! For example - Greta seeing the baby Jesus and talking about her St Christopher, and Colonel Arbuthnot divorcing his wife - both not mentioned in the book! Then there's the fact the first film was two hours - this one is an hour an a half, and is rushed. Some passengers aren't questioned, and barely have a line! Hardman isn't in it. Like the book, Elena doesn't stab Rachet. So whose is the twelfth stab wound? Dr Constantine! Then we are constantly shown Poirot praying and clutching a rosary! We know he is catholic, but it barely gets a mention in the books...at the end he wants to turn them all in to the police, but in an epilogue that drags on forever they try to convince him round, and he is shown wrestling with his conscience...the script and acting - even Suchet's (or maybe especially Suchet's!) is pretty dreadful. And it's unleavened in the depressing mood it creates. Even the book had SOME humour! They do make an attempt to make it visually interesting at least, and not so much like a stage play...there is a lot of snow, and they portray the crashing into the snowdrift...I liked all that, but I can't recommend the film. The best adaptation is still the 2 1/2 hour BBC radio play... Oh and I haven't even mentioned the woman being stoned in the streets of Istanbul which opens the film...and the military man who is shown committing suicide in a fit of passion when confronted by Poirot - Poirot's face cops some of the man's blood...(this is the case Poirot has finished mentioned at the start of the book...) All in all, pretty awful.

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LuvAgathaChristie26 02 Nov 10 at 5:19 p.m. GMT

I couldn't believe Poirot was crying either. I saw the movie and read the book months ago but I still can't decide if Poirot should have turned them in. 

knottyceltic 21 Oct 10 at 6 p.m. GMT

Well said McGinty.  I enjoyed this new adaptation very much despite the departure from the typical Suchet adaptations.  I think it was a good point at which to have Poirot think and even question his role and his attitude about crime in general and 'possibly' each crime that he has investigated in the past.  Speaking as probably one of the older members of the group, most people DO go through a period of questioning one's career and the choices one makes in that career and in life.  To me this made Poirot seem more "human" as he is often portrayed as almost "mechanical".

McGinty 21 Oct 10 at 2:28 p.m. GMT

Well, for what it's worth, I really enjoyed the Suchet version. I've watched it three times now and enjoyed it more with each viewing. It's not long enough - another ten minutes would have helped- but the time frame for each episode is 90 minutes so that is what we have to accept. I can't accept the criticism over the beginning of the film, the military trial is fine, and the stoning of the adulterer on the street is a good way of introducing the theme of 'taking the law into one's own hands'. I especially like the way this version shows some of the passengers actually showing their feelings for the enormity of the deed they are about to commit. Some of the interviews with the passengers could have been better if the film was longer, but all in all I found the whole thing very moving and entertaining- oh, and beautifully filmed. I think they have pulled this one off big style, which after the debacle of Appointment With Death I was actually concerned about. 

Lone_Wolf 20 Oct 10 at 4:48 a.m. GMT

"Poirot then witnesses a violent act of retribution on the streets (a stoning), and with no human emotion whatsoever, declares it to be justice".

I am still surprised by absense of angry Kemalists raging about that scene.

And Poirot sounds like he just needs some Prozac.

go_leafs_nation 20 Oct 10 at 2:56 a.m. GMT

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The MOTOE DVD arrived for me at the library today. I haven't yet seen it because I refuse to watch PBS' chopped up version. The first few minutes, though, have been very underwhelming. The case that brings Poirot to Istanbul in the first place is very unimaginative and dull. I'll even summarize it for you- if you haven't seen it, you didn't miss much:

The Lieutenant lies! He claims he was back at midnight, but Poirot has proven this to be a lie! [No creative alibi?] Perhaps he lied at first out of fear, but he kept spewing lie after lie after lie, and a trail of lies and deceit have put his regiment to shame!

Anyone see my problem here? The entire thing has no imagination put into it whatsoever! It's just Poirot shouting "You lied, you liar, you lied!" and then acting surprised when the soldier commits suicide (probably wondering "Will he shut up if I do it? Might as well...") Even the Alfred Molina version showed some inspiration, linking (however stupidly) the killer to a palindrome.

Yup, Poirot shouting. Hooray. I like the darker Poirot, but here he did literally nothing but shout to open the film, and then poorly justifies his own actions to another soldier. The opening credits then appear, and the music is HIDEOUS. It is loud, mechanical, and ugly-sounding. In a word, it is horrible. And I usually like the music accompanying the episodes. This just grated on my ears.

Poirot then witnesses a violent act of retribution on the streets (a stoning), and with no human emotion whatsoever, declares it to be justice. Umm... okay? Basically, the screenplay has him Reflecting on Themes Relevant Still Today And That Makes It So Much More Deep.

It may be just me, but I was so off-put by the first few minutes I turned the whole thing off. The episode seems to be a tragicomedy of a soap opera. I didn't feel as if I was watching an adaptation of a classic at all.

Pongo 25 Aug 10 at 4:32 a.m. GMT

In the making-of documentary of the Sidney Lumet film version, found on the DVD and on youtube.com, there was a story about how the famous composer Bernard Herrmann (composer of many classic film scores for, among others, many of the Alfred Hitchcock films like Psycho and Vertigo) was rumored to have seen the Sidney Lumet film and to have not liked the Richard Rodney Bennett music for being too bright and nostalgic.  Bernard Herrmann would have preferred instead a darker musical score because, as he is remembered to have said, the Orient Express was a “train of death!!!” 

Well, in essence, that is what the David Suchet Orient Express feels like—a train of death.  Mr. Herrmann would probably have been happier with the Suchet version than with the Lumet version. 

For me, the Suchet version is interesting and, at times, gripping.  Also, it really sets the stage nicely for Curtain, should such film ever be green lit. 

Katherine 18 Aug 10 at 9:15 a.m. GMT

marlonbrando76

someone know  where write to ask an extended orient express edition on dvd?

do you join with me for a petition request, this version deserve a 2 hours long version...

You're wasting your time with a petition I'm afraid.

Apart from the fact that internet petitions are almost universally ignored, there  won't be an extra half hour of material hanging around that can just be inserted into MOTOE.

TV budgets and schedules are so tight that there simply isn't the luxury of shooting lots more stuff that they know they won't be able to use.

And the alternative - rehiring all the cast, crew, costumes, sets, etc - would be simply ridiculous.

I fear you'll just have to enjoy what they've given you!

Carlyle 17 Aug 10 at 10:18 p.m. GMT

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Now I have seen the ”longer” version (the 89-minute long version that is) and now I love this adaptation even more. After having seen the longer version I realize how much "Masterpiece Mystery" cut out – the woman in the kimono, for example. Her appearance made was very important, seems odd to cut that out in my opinion. We are also given more of mr Ratchett/Cassetti, mrs Hubbard/Linda Arden, mr MacQueen, mr Masterman, miss Ohlsson and more to it. We also get more of the train and I liked that! The murder scene is extended and more gruesome – just as it should be. Even though it is a monster that is being killed, he is in fact being killed! Poirot’s dilemma is very understandable. A gem is being polished even more! I wonder if the blue ray-version will be even longer – that would be something.

Carlyle 23 Jul 10 at 8:21 p.m. GMT

I have to admit, I´m a bit confused about the length of this one. As i understand it, the dvd-version released by Acorn is 89 minutes (the PBS-version was about 81/82 minutes i think), but the length of the blue ray-version is said on Amazon to be 100 minutes. Then again, the release of the blue ray is due in october so perhaps the length is incorrect at the moment. Does anybody know?

marlonbrando76 20 Jul 10 at 10:09 a.m. GMT

someone know  where write to ask an extended orient express edition on dvd?

do you join with me for a petition request, this version deserve a 2 hours long version...

marlonbrando76 20 Jul 10 at 10:06 a.m. GMT

wolfbridge

my dvd version has the red kimono in it.

 how long the dvd version? the television version is 1 h and 30 min.

S_Sigerson 19 Jul 10 at 7:48 p.m. GMT

As I have mentioned before, I never, ever compare the different versions of television/film adaptations nor do I compare television/film adaptations to the books/short stories. I judge each one based on its own merits, just like I don’t compare the different portrayals of Poirot or Miss. Marple. Albert Finney was a wonderful Hercule Poirot, just like David Suchet is wonderful Hercule Poirot. And Peter Ustinov – how can one not love him in Death on the Nile. He was terrific as the Belgian sleuth. Unless you are critic and one that gets paid well no less, I don’t see the point of negativity and criticism. Why is so important to have one favorite. Why must there be the one definitive Poirot or Miss. Marple. Why - oh - why should we be so limited. Why not accept and enjoy the many, many different incarnations of these wonderful characters. Life is all the more better because actors and actresses such as Finney, Ustinov, Suchet, Hickson, McEwan and Mckenzie, all decided to have a go and gave their professional best to bring these characters to life.  

I do hope they will be able to make Dead Man’s Folly. Now that Greenway has been restored it would be a fitting and proper way to end the series and not end it like they did with Inspector Morse. Leave Poirot live on in all his glory with is friends and colleagues. Bring back Hastings, Miss. Lemon, Inspector Japp and include Mrs. Oliver for one last adventure, a pièce de résistance called Dead Man’s Folly. To fade out with all of them sitting on the battlement overlooking the River Dart, what better way to end the series? Leave the final Poirot story un-adapted. Let's leave the series on a happy and positive note with an upbeat image of the little Belgian sleuth.       

Agathasmykid 19 Jul 10 at 7:48 p.m. GMT

Wow, interesting reactions being posted.  I taped it and finally got to finish watching it last night. Overall I quite enjoyed it, however it is not without it's flaws.

I thought David Suchet was outstanding in this.  Lets remember that Finney's version is considered by many as the greatest of all Agatha Christie movies.  Finney was comical, serious, and appeared a very excitable person.  Suchet obviously did not want to just copy Finney, and wanted to do something different.  It appears he and the producers chose a darker route to go.  I loved it. This version of 'Orient Express' really took the rule of law theme and in my opinion made it the primary theme of the movie.  This is a huge difference compared to Finney's version where it seems completely glossed over.  I felt this theme really added quality to the movie, making it go beyound a mear whodunnit, and into a murder mystery with an ethical dilemna.  The last 15 minutes featuring a very angry Poirot were great in my opinion.

Where I will agree with others is that the PBS version feels very rushed.  The investigation itself lacks in that viewers who do not know the end may feel like they have not been given enough clues to help them sort out the mystery.  Also, it is just too short.  Many characters felt very undeveloped.

I am fine with the story and cast changes.  Like I said previously, they tried to do something different from the Finney version, and yet tried to stay as true as possible to Agatha's original story.  I hope to get it on DVD and hope to watch a version that has a little more to it.

S_Sigerson 19 Jul 10 at 7:48 p.m. GMT

Dull? Not at all. The 1974 version of Murder on the Orient Express is wonderfully entertaining from start to finish. There isn't a dull moment in the entire production.

As far as the latest version, I would give it a B- or C+. Whereas, I would give the television adaptations of Cards on the Table and the Third Girl A‘s. I enjoyed Suchet’s Murder on the Orient Express, but there wasn't enough background information leading up to the murder. And the interviews were way too short. Yes, brevity is good, but not to the point of obtuseness. This production needed to be about 1 hour and 40 minutes in length to really tell the story in an accurate and compelling manner and allow adequate character development. I must admit though, I was extremely happy I see David Suchet in Murder on the Orient Express, which is definitely one of Agatha’s best mysteries, along with And Then There Were None and The Murder of Roger Ackroyd.

LittleSquirrel 19 Jul 10 at 7:10 p.m. GMT

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As for what i see, during the flashback of murder sence, Ratchett was only stabbed seven times and still very much conscious, yet we all know he was stabbed 12 times, so was the sence of other 5 stabs cut on PBS or is that we never told who gave the fatal one

wolfbridge 19 Jul 10 at 4:31 p.m. GMT

as i do not have seen the PBS Version i cannot tell :)

Carlyle 17 Jul 10 at 10:05 p.m. GMT

What else is in your dvd-version that isn´t in the PBS-version, Wolfbridge? I´m very curious.

wolfbridge 17 Jul 10 at 6:57 p.m. GMT

my dvd version has the red kimono in it.

Tommy_A_Jones 17 Jul 10 at 4:45 p.m. GMT

I admit tat it is a couple of years at lest since I read Murder On The Orient Express but surely the books has all the suspects being interviewed so I don't understand why you say the Finney version gives them too much time, They were big nanes and so they had to be seen or else the film would have lost money, I thought it was fine, not as good as some Ustinov's but then the book isn't as good as some that Ustinov did IMHO, at least he was visually closer to Poirot than Ustinov, I haven't seen the others you mention so can't comment on those go_leafs apart from  The Mystery of The Blue Train which I read 20 Years ago and can't remember much of, the Adaptation didn't stick in my mind.

go_leafs_nation 17 Jul 10 at 2:41 p.m. GMT

The problem with the Finney adaptation was that it tried to give as much time as possible to each of its stars. This resulted in really static, overdrawn interviews. Often quite dull, really.

The length of this adaptation seems to me to be ideal, cutting down on on the excess and getting to the bare bones of the whole thing. But PBS for some bizarre reason insists on cutting out about ten minutes more just to put in an unnecessary introduction. So what was a tight-fitting adaptation is now chopped up, fragmented, and just generally tampered with. Why tamper with the original work? Would you cut off parts of a masterpiece painting just so that it would fit a (now more fashionable) circular frame?

But I'm glad to see that the Poirot series seems to have stopped airing one version of an adaptation and then ( WHY?) cutting scenes out of it and recutting other segments. It's a DVD, there's plenty of room for the other segments as well! It's annoying, and usually resulted in poor "let's pretend this never happened" cutting. The Mystery of the Blue Train was particularly guilty over this, as the scene where Van Aldin tries to bribe Derek was entirely cut out. And then uses of "God" prefixing "damn" were also edited out... Anyway, back to what I was saying, so far as I could tell, the DVDs of Mrs. McGinty's Dead and Cat Among the Pigeons do not do partake in any such tomfoolery. Hopefully they've learned a thing or two about how pointless that was.

Carlyle 17 Jul 10 at 12:49 p.m. GMT

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As I have already said (in big words) I loved it. There is, however, one thing I wonder... I have it from differens sources on the internet that the scarlet kimono is indeed in the dvd-version of the movie - but I wonder: what else is? There have to be at least a few minutes cut out from the PBS-version (6 to 9 minutes I have read in different places) so what else might be there?

I hope there is more of the interviews because if there is anything to complain about in this version of MOTOE it is that some of the interviews felt a bit short, and some of the suspects were barely interviewed at all. It didn´t bother me that much, but if there is more of that - this diamond is polished even more.

Number3 16 Jul 10 at 1:13 p.m. GMT

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I did not like this version of "Orient."  Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Suchet did a version of "Orient" for the A&E network. As well as the video game.

This version made me very upset.  I did not like the way Poirot was portrayed in this one.  Also the time frame it which it was set was unclear.  Usually I can tell the period of a film by the clothes, but all the clothes in this film were muddled.  So, the only period piece was the train.

I hate to think what version number 2 of "Appointment With Death" is going to be like. 

Carlyle 14 Jul 10 at 1:49 p.m. GMT

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I love the fact that her line from the book about how men like Ratchett where treated in her childhood is in the movie. It´s hard not to mention all the actors because I do think they all did a wonderful but I would like to comment on Toby Jones, Barbara Hershey and Susanne Lothar. Toby Jones made mr Ratchett a very unpleasant man in anxiety, not as much for what he have done as for what he fears will be done to him. Barbara Hershey was excellent but not "too much", wich I feared since the character mrs Hubbard is a play in the play. Susanne Lothar was wonderful, completely believable. The scene where she confesses to her cocking-skills is backed up by a scene earlier in the dining-car. That´s one thing I love about this adaptation, the clues are backed up by details. When Poirot searches for the uniform he says it has to be found in the luggage of the one person who could not have worn it - the witness who claimed to have seen the false conductor. I don´t seem to remember that Poirot explains that in the book, he simply says it will be found in Hildegarde Smiths luggage.

I loved this episode, in my opinion it´s one of the best Poirot-episodes to this date. It´s very dark and extremely emotional. The issue for Poirot - the question about justice - is stressed and I have to confess: the murder of Ratchett/Cassetti is not very pretty, it has a sense of cruelty to it. Yet I understand the arguments in favor of it and the issue of God, raised by Greta Ohlsson is very strong. Perhaps the question is every bit as hard as it seems to be for Poirot. I found myself crying (for the right reasons, that is) most of the time, especially in the part where the two solutions are presented and the rest of the film to the very strong ending. And indeed, it must be the first time we actually see Poirot cry? In earlier episodes holds his tears back, here he is about to burst… will Hercule Poirot ever be the same after this journey?

Carlyle 14 Jul 10 at 1:44 p.m. GMT

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This has to be one of the darkest Poirot-episodes so far, perhaps it will be overrun by Curtain sometime in the future, but so far... Murder on the Orient express is dark, dark, dark. Don´t misunderstand me – I for one love the darkness. The beginning of the episode, with the suicide (that is mentioned briefly in the beginning of the book) sets the tone and the stoning of the woman in the street deepens it. That part, in my opinion, is a very good way of describing when man takes justice into ones own hands in a very ugly way. It is a darker mirror to the ending. It makes the ending, the major thing with this story, somewhat harder to embrace without hesitation. After all, Poirot is right when he says that if we put ourselves above the law it will turn us into savages.

About some of the changes: the fact that dr Constantine is one of the twelve is a bit of a chock but it works well with how his part is being shown in the movie. The scene where he and mrs Hubbard back up each other when dr Constantine "discovers" the button in front of a skeptical Poirot is very good because it seems a bit obvious. That rather clumsy way of pointing out the false clues reappears for example when Hildegarde Smith tells to Poirot that she has seen the murderer. I think that adds a genuine sense to this adaptation.

The characters are wonderfully portrayed. Marie-Josée Croze gives so much dignity to Greta Ohlsson (although her swedish when she sings a lullaby in the end is a bit so so) and though Wendy Hiller (in the 1974-movie gave THE performance of princess Dragomiroff) Dame Eileen Atkins makes the character much more of a human being, cold yet very emotional. (CONTINUE NEXT)

Noah 14 Jul 10 at 5:37 a.m. GMT

I'd say I enjoyed it, especially since I think most of people's complaints stem from what appears to be a bad editing job on PBS's part. If you didn't enjoy it, I'd give it a second chance when the DVD comes out.

go_leafs_nation 14 Jul 10 at 2:45 a.m. GMT

I refuse to watch the PBS version that aired. As I've mentioned in my recent reviews, PBS does a simply wonderful job of editing the episodes to make them feel rushed, muddled, and fragmented, not to mention butchering the sound. This is one of Agatha's greatest works (which I somehow solved halfway into the book) and I don't want to watch a poor version of the adaptation, skewing my opinion about the it until a complete version appears.

P_Lombard 14 Jul 10 at 1:18 a.m. GMT

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I really did not like this film version. There were so many things that I found to be completely wrong which prevented me from enjoying the movie. Seven things I did not like were:

1. David Suchet is usually wonderful as Poirot, but in this movie he seemed to be constantly in a bad mood
2. Greta & Antonio's personalities were completely different
3. Too many clues/false leads were cut
4. Replacing Hardman with Dr. Constantine as a murderer was unnecessary and not a good change
5. The middle part of the story (the investigation) was way too short, leaving a viewer no chance to get to know the characters; by the end of the movie, I still could not place names with faces
6. Too much time was spent belaboring the beginning & the conclusion with new, unnecessary, and gruesome material
7. Mary's personality was all wrong and she comes off, perhaps intentionally, as a hypocrite

My entire list of complaints is much longer.

maryofscots 13 Jul 10 at 6:50 p.m. GMT

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I was listening to my audiobook version up until seeing Sunday night. I was highly disappointed. After hearing Suchet in both versions it's as though there are 2 different "versions". Poirot in the audiobook is so...I don't want to say upbeat... but definitely not dark. Poirot in the new TV version is so dark. The whole episode was dark. And what was with the stoning at the beginning? Or the trial? Where they necessary? Those two incidents put a heavy burden on Poirot that's not there in the book. There are even parts in the audiobook that make me chuckle (esp. Suchet's rendition of Mrs Hubbard)... far from the doom and gloom in the TV version.

cameronjhw 13 Jul 10 at 3:07 p.m. GMT

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I really enjoyed seeing it on Sunday at PBS. I have always enjoyed David Suchet's portrayal of Poirot and in this one his character seems more dark and deep especially towards the end when he confronts the passengers about the rule of law. After Poirot tells the police the first solution and walks away I could not believe he was actually crying. I thought at first because he betrays his devotion to his Catholic faith by not turning in the killers. But also I think because he seems sympathic towards them because of what they have been through due to Casetti. Can't wait to get the DVD when it is out. It was excellently filmed. I like a lot of the actors especially Brian J. Smith, Eileen Atkins, Barbara Hershey. I like the 1974 version too but I do not like Albert Finney. In this one they have added alot of mood, atmosphere, and emotion. I was sorry that they did not have Hardman in it but I understand they can't always have every single character like in the book. Great version to watch and probably Suchet's best. I was not disappointed. 

jakob1978 13 Jul 10 at 2:34 p.m. GMT

Well, i have to disagree, I really enjoyed it, and thought Suchet was excellent.  Beautifully filmed too.

shanty_sleuth 13 Jul 10 at 6:22 a.m. GMT

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PBS did, indeed, edit out the clue of the scarlet kimono from its broadcast.

Ms_Kylie_Menage 13 Jul 10 at 6:14 a.m. GMT

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Oh and what happened to the woman in the scarlet kimono? She's in the trailer...maybe she was one of PBS' cuts...