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Poirot & Marple in the U.S.

GKCfan 13 Apr 09 at 3:32 a.m. GMT

For all of the American viewers, PBS has announced that it plans to air two new Poirot episodes on the 21st and 28th of June, with three episodes of Miss Marple airing from the 5th to the 26th of July.  However, this leaves two Poirot episodes and one Marple unaccounted for, and they don't say which ones are airing yet.

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Bundle_ 16 Nov 09 at 1:17 p.m. GMT

I indeed remember, GKC. :0)

And quite a while after that -- there was a rumor of them doing EN for the MM series.

GKCfan 16 Nov 09 at 8:28 a.m. GMT

Bundle, as I recall, on the old site we were discussing which non-Marple books would have her inserted into them next, and I predicted that it was likely that Endless Night would have Miss Marple added, especially since EN is an expansion of the Marple short story "The Caretaker."  I didn't say that it would be a good adaptation, I just said that it was likely.

Bundle_ 02 Sep 09 at 1:53 p.m. GMT

Tommy_A_Jones

Sorry Bundle as I appreciate your opinion but I do think this might be one of the few books which would be improved by having Miss Marple, the others being Sparkling Cyanide and Murder Is Easy but from what I have heard of MIE they took a great opportunity and didn't do too well, I can see how MM could be in MIE, but they forgot to ask me Ha Ha. 

No problem, Tommy! I suppose then her apperance would be a comfort to those who like the book. But I just don't think the fans of EN would be to keen on the idea.

Tommy_A_Jones 02 Sep 09 at 10:49 a.m. GMT

ITV and all who have a say in the series have ruined it anyway by putting MM in books she shouldn't be in and having Lesbiens and Nuns where Nuns and Lesbians shouldn't be so putting Miss Marple in EN can't do damage to the Book, which I found difficult to read and having her in it might help the Audience to understand, I know I sometimes think a recurring Character is like a friendly face and can be a help to the reader to encourage the reader to read on, some Non-Series Books could have benefited from this and some like 'WHY DIDN'T THEY ASK EVANS wouldn't have, SPARKLING CYANIDE had Race a recurring Character but still failed to be easy for me to read. Sorry Bundle as I appreciate your opinion but I do think this might be one opf the few books which woulkd be improved by having Miss Marple, the others being Sparkling Cyanide and Murder Is Easy but from what I have heard of MIE they took a great opportunity and didin't do too well, I can see how MM could be in MIE, but they forgot to ask me Ha Ha. 

Bundle_ 01 Sep 09 at 6:28 p.m. GMT

EN w/ MM = terrible. For those who like EN, she would ruin the dark feel of the story. And for those who don't like the book, she would contribute absolutely nothing to it.

Tommy_A_Jones 01 Sep 09 at 11:32 a.m. GMT

I don't remember the use of the song in Death On The Nile but I love the song, I have recently purchased a CD of Cole Porter and on it is 'Your The Tops' and love the rendition with Maggie Smith and Diana Rigg in the PU version of Evil Under The Sun,

I remember people being annoyed at the thought of Miss Marple being in  Endless Night, since that Discussion I have read it and think MM would improve the Book which I didn't like, I found it slow, I didn't care about the Characters and instead of notg being able to put it down I had to force myself to pick it up and only did so I could finish it and move on, Sadly I found out on the old site who the Murderer was so that might have had a baring on it but perhaps not as I didn't know the identity of Death Comes At The End or Death Comes At The End and didn't like them, I didn't like Sparkling Cyanide but saw the film but that was different to the book which I didn't like and I disliked Lord Edgware Dies so much I found myself peeking at the back and then finishing it, I didn't like TMORA but might read it again to see if I do like it. (I wont re-read the others, as reading those definitely were torture and perhaps reading TMORA wasn't. 

Bundle_ 01 Sep 09 at 11 a.m. GMT

I just remembered: On the old site, many of us chatted about that - there was talk between the producers that Endless Night was going to be filmed w/ Miss Marple in it. Does anyone remember that too? I recall that we were all scandalized!

go_leafs_nation 31 Aug 09 at 7:09 p.m. GMT

Personally, I found the use of the song in DS's Death on the Nile effective, but I don't care for the song itself much.

Bundle_ 28 Aug 09 at 2:24 p.m. GMT

Oh well. I bought the song Love is the Sweetest thing by Al Bowely some time ago. Do you like that one go leafs?

go_leafs_nation 28 Aug 09 at 2:12 p.m. GMT

Nope. No idea.

Bundle_ 28 Aug 09 at 1:34 p.m. GMT

Back to the topic of music. Go leafs, do you know who sings that song in Suchet's version of Death on the Nile called Mad About the Boy? I have heard several versions by different artists but they are just not the one who sings it in the adapt.

go_leafs_nation 27 Aug 09 at 6:10 p.m. GMT

The explanation of the clocks is just about irrelevant. It crops up at the beginning, is mentioned a few times in the middle, and is explained in two sentences at the end. It isn't "almost the entire plot". The plot is concerned with international spies, the strange shape of the street, Mrs. Bland's constant nagging, etc. It goes all over the place. It's one of Agatha's later and weaker novels. I think it could do with a few adjustments in this case.

This, however, is my opinion on The Clocks. I don't mean, by that, that every AC book should be modified. There are more than a few that could do with alterations, however.

Bundle_ 27 Aug 09 at 5:32 p.m. GMT

So, if an AC book is boring, or not very good, then it should be considered a candidate to almost redo the entire plot? That was not a rhetorical question btw.

go_leafs_nation 27 Aug 09 at 5:24 p.m. GMT

I liked The Clocks, but let's be honest, it's not very good. This is a book that CAN be improved upon in the adaptation. It starts out with a plethora of interesting points, which are dismissed hastily near the end with an unconvincing solution. I want to see a better explanation than the weak one AC wrote in as if she'd just remembered she had to.

Bundle_ 27 Aug 09 at 3:42 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

Personally, I hope he comes up with a better explanation for the secret of the clocks than AC did.

The Clocks was a pretty boring book however I would still like it to be pretty faithful to the book. Just seeing it brought to life is the added excitement to the book for me. But if they change the explanation the whole AC theme would be ruined!

go_leafs_nation 27 Aug 09 at 3:34 p.m. GMT

(Rant continued...)

Nick Dear (Three Act Tragedy screenwriter) wrote:

• The Hollow
• Cards on the Table
• Mrs. McGinty's Dead

All right, to be fair to Nick Dear, McGinty and The Hollow turned out great. However, I still don't trust him after writing the atrocious Cards on the Table. However, he admitted that the book was superior in the TV Tie-In version of Cards on the Table I bought, so he isn't someone who thinks he'll come up with something better than Christie. I can live with him as the screenwriter, but still can't trust him too much.

Ashley Pearce (Three Act Tragedy director) directed:

• Mrs. McGinty's Dead
• Appointment With Death

An interesting scenario, because these two are polar opposites of each other. However, both had a major flaw in the direction: there seemed to be haloes of light surrounding everything. This got really distracting. Fortunately, the actors, screenwriter, set designers, composer, etc. saved the show, and actually made McGinty a great adaptation. Unfortunately, the horrid Appointment With Death exposes the flaws even more. The haloes make another unwelcome appearance, there is really little suspense or mystery (hm... X comes into a tent with blood on their hands, Y is discovered with their head bashed in.... how is a viewer supposed to NOT make a connection between the two???). Not even THE Tim Curry could do much. Pearce is a rather bad director, and I do not look forward to seeing more of her adaptations at all.

go_leafs_nation 27 Aug 09 at 3:34 p.m. GMT

According to the wonderful world of IMDb, Stewart Harcourt wrote the script for The Clocks, and Charles Palmer directs. As for Three Act Tragedy, Nick Dear wrote the script and Ashley Pearce directs. Personally, I'm delighted at the news for The Clocks, but rather alarmed at the hands that are being entrusted with Three Act Tragedy. (Below there may be some minor spoilers, but nothing that should ruin the movie.)

Stewart Harcourt (The Clocks screenwriter) wrote:

• Ordeal by Innocence
• By the Pricking of My Thumbs
• A Murder is Announced

This is great news. All three were well-written, even Thumbs, which despite plot alterations, was faithful in mood to the novel. Ordeal by Innocence was decently faithful, and so was A Murder is Announced. Both, however, had to be somewhat simplified for the adaptations. Harcourt pulled that off well, and The Clocks will definately require a lot of simplification. It's one twisted, convoluted, plot. Personally, I hope he comes up with a better explanation for the secret of the clocks than AC did.

Charles Palmer (The Clocks director) directed:

• A Pocket Full of Rye
• The Murder at the Vicarage

Both were rather faithful adaptations, and rather entertaining (McEwan's MATV is, I'd argue, more faithful than Hickson's). I liked his direction style, which really got put to the test in the ending of A Pocket Full of Rye. I'm glad he's on board.

Santonix 24 Aug 09 at 10:45 p.m. GMT

Go_leafs -

Your ears do not fail you. It was indeed in Chocolat, for Five Little Pigs builds its score around Gnossiennes No. 1, composed by Erik Satie. What Five Little Pigs brings to it that most versions do not is a full orchestra, as it was written for, and primarily played with, the piano. It is also used as the main theme in the documentary Man on Wire.

go_leafs_nation 24 Aug 09 at 12:32 a.m. GMT

Mrs. McGinty's Dead had fine music! I particularly liked how the finale mirrored the opening theme, but skewered it and made it far darker, as if the music itself were recoiling with horror at the revelation.

Another great music-wise Poirot is Five Little Pigs. I swear that I've heard some of the score somewhere before, though, in the Johnny Depp-Julie Binoche-Alfred Molina movie Chocolat.

Bundle_ 23 Aug 09 at 9:32 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

True, but hearing a slowed-down version of JH's theme as the body is discovered makes the moment reeeeeeeally boring. As a serious lover of film music (trust me, I mean serious), I enjoy Dominik Scherrer's more diverse score. For instance, listen to the music as McEwan explains the solution in The Murder at the Vicarage (one of her best, I'd say). The music is slightly sinister, and fits in perfectly, "opening up" (new tune, more/other instruments, etc.) as the solution unfolds.

While JH's theme is great, the music is practically all variations on the theme, and it adds to the TV-movie feel. It's not much fun to listen to.

I've never seen the JH versions of Miss Marple, go leafs. I mean the McEwan opening music.

btw what did you think of the music playing when Poirot revealed the culprit(s) in Mrs. McGinty's Dead? To me it was really eerie but fitting at the same time.

Also, have you heard the theme music to the Ian Carmichael adaptions of Lord Peter Wimsey? I think you'd like it; it's catchy.

AndThenThereWasTim 23 Aug 09 at 9 p.m. GMT

I agree with Tommy A Jones I think the homosexuality thing was totally out of place. But I also agree with the video (which I thought was hillarious) that ITV just wanted to cause a stir and get people to do exactly what we are doing. Debate. They LOVE controversy beacause it gets people watching. I just think twisting the plot to conform to your political and moral beliefs is wrong. They should stick to the frames of the plot and change very little if anything at all.

go_leafs_nation 23 Aug 09 at 8:48 p.m. GMT

True, but hearing a slowed-down version of JH's theme as the body is discovered makes the moment reeeeeeeally boring. As a serious lover of film music (trust me, I mean serious), I enjoy Dominik Scherrer's more diverse score. For instance, listen to the music as McEwan explains the solution in The Murder at the Vicarage (one of her best, I'd say). The music is slightly sinister, and fits in perfectly, "opening up" (new tune, more/other instruments, etc.) as the solution unfolds.

While JH's theme is great, the music is practically all variations on the theme, and it adds to the TV-movie feel. It's not much fun to listen to.

Bundle_ 23 Aug 09 at 7:14 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

and the music does what it's supposed to do, rather than sound comfy and lazy.

I really miss the old intro tune to the Miss Marple series :-). I think that "comfy" and "lazy" sound would suit the new series as well, especially considering that McKenzie is much more 'fluffier' than McEwan.

go_leafs_nation 23 Aug 09 at 3:54 p.m. GMT

I disagree with you. I find S_Sigerson's arguments refreshing. I need to be told every once in a while that I'm completely wrong. ;)

While I agree the series' plot alterations are rather bad (for the most part), I find that the camerawork and music has undergone major improvements since Joan Hickson. The series looks far less like made-for-TV movies, and the music does what it's supposed to do, rather than sound comfy and lazy. Plus, Julia Mackenzie is brilliant, and I liked McEwan in her role.

I'd give this series 3 stars out of 4. I find it is very well-done, except for massive plot alterations, and at times, terrible scripts.

Tommy_A_Jones 23 Aug 09 at 10:53 a.m. GMT

I am sorry if I was unfair but I just find S Siegerson's constant defending of the 'Marple' series a bit much and rather tiresome, why defend the undefenceable, there shouldn't be Lesbians and Nazi's unless a book states it and the Murderer, Motive or era should never be changed either all this can happen without having Carbon copies whioch I unbderstand is what you wish to avoid go_leafs, I was watching the JH version of Nemesis yesteday and there was Scene in the book that wasn't in the Adap (The one where MM meets men at the end to explain the whole thing) so you see some scenes have never been seen so new adaptations could include it, another case in point is 'The Mirror Crack'd which I haven't read yet but isn't there a Character not in the JH or AL versions who is in the JM version (Britain sees it next month) so it is possible to do a book more tyhan once if scenes not portrayed before are shot 

go_leafs_nation 22 Aug 09 at 2:40 p.m. GMT

That's rather unfair. I don't agree with S-Sigerson, but he states his point of view clearly. It's not like fanboys' "defense" of "Transformers 2", for instance. He states his reasons for his opinion, and they all make sense, although I mightn't agree with them.

S_Sigerson

Actually, this Comedy sketch (you will notice the capital "C") shows just how silly this  debate on lesbians in the Marple series really is.

Personally, I found it pointed out just how silly it was to go fooling around with Agatha Christie, adding in some really pointless Matrix-style action or stuff that AC didn't write about. (Ninjas? Shootouts? But shootouts have started to happen lately in Poirot and Marple. Think of the poorly executed finale in Roger Ackroyd.)

Tommy_A_Jones 22 Aug 09 at 1:55 p.m. GMT

S Sigedrson why don't you just admit that you are wrong and your judgement is clouded because you have a Friend or relative on the crew that makes the series even though you haven't admitted it yet, the Debate is not silly it is stupid putting Lesbians and Nazi's and Miss Marple in Episodes where Miss Marple, Lesbiens and Nazi's don't belong.

S_Sigerson 21 Aug 09 at 10:23 p.m. GMT

Actually, this Comedy sketch (you will notice the capital "C") shows just how silly this  debate on lesbians in the Marple series really is.  As far as including it in the next DVD set - well - isn't there something a little more interesting, such as a "tutorial on how to darn one's own socks" that could be included instead.   

GKCfan 19 Aug 09 at 4:43 p.m. GMT

I don't care how many strings they have to pull, they MUST make that a special feature on the next DVD set.  Love it.  Love it love it love it.

Tommy_A_Jones 14 Aug 09 at 1:22 p.m. GMT

Unfortunately like most digs will go over the heads of the intended Targets.

TheMole 14 Aug 09 at 1:17 p.m. GMT

That was one of the funniest things I have ever seen!!

Tommy_A_Jones 14 Aug 09 at 1:10 p.m. GMT

I have just watched it and it is a Hilarious dig at the way ITV had really botched a Golden Opportunity at Rivalling BBCs wonderful Treatment of the Miss Marple Books, Hopefully someone at ITV will see it think 'It's a Fair Cop' Hang their head in shame and fully explain themselves because they haven't justified themselves adequately whatever they may think.

Boomcoach 14 Aug 09 at 12:52 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

I belive this video here sums up most of our thoughts about the new Marple series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fULNtyEcWk 

Don't let the Marple series director see that, he will think it is inspirational!  Thanks for sharing that, go leafs nation!

go_leafs_nation 14 Aug 09 at 10:39 a.m. GMT

I belive this video here sums up most of our thoughts about the new Marple series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fULNtyEcWk 

TheMole 10 Aug 09 at 11:19 a.m. GMT

Coincidentally enough my Mom enjoyed MIE whereas I didn't. She said the ending was pretty bad though but other than that she liked it. She didn't enjoy Evans at all, though.

Tommy_A_Jones 08 Aug 09 at 1:13 p.m. GMT

I haven't seen Murder Is Easy yet as Britain see the series in the Autumn but have looked on IMDB and the Actress who played Honoria Waynfleet was in 'Must Contain Nuts' and played Moaning Mertle in Harry Potter, I have also seen Sylvia Syms is in 'Murder Is Easy', perhaps she should have been cast as Honoria.

wimseycat 06 Aug 09 at 12:35 a.m. GMT

S_Sigerson

 I have seen the actress who played Honoria Waynflete before, but for the life of me I can't remember in what.

Hi, I haven't posted since the old website was up, but I thought I would jump in here.  The actress who played Honoria was in Bridget Jones as one of the friends, also in Harry Potter as Moaning Myrtle (someone mentioned this I think.) 

One of the first things I inevitably do with new Christie films is try to figure out which actors I recognize from other Christie films or other movies.  Just a bad habit I guess!

S_Sigerson

I really liked Murder is Easy. I am getting quite used to Julia McKenzie in the role of Miss. Marple. I look forward to seeing, They Do It With Mirrors and Why Didn't They Ask Evans?. Miss. Marple along with Luke and PC Terence Weed were quite good as the investigative team. I have seen the actress who played Honoria Waynflete before, but for the life of me I can't remember in what. And I couldn't believe Sylvia Syms. Granted it was small role, but I didn't recognize her at all. I have seen Joan Hickson in several films she was in back in the 50's and even though she was a lot older when she played Miss. Marple, I still was able to recognize her. I also enjoyed the 1982 adaptation of Murder is Easy. 

TheMole 05 Aug 09 at 4:28 p.m. GMT

I agree, Number3.

It just seems as if these so called screen "writers" are using AC's name and her beloved novels as a crutch so that they can flaunt their own "talents".

Number3 05 Aug 09 at 4:10 p.m. GMT

In my opinion with the teleplays when the tittle comes up it should say it's based on the story or uses and idea from AC. 

All of the borrowing and adding to stories just confuses people.  And, the confusion does one of two things. 1) gets people to read the novels(a plus in my book) or 2) gets them frustrated and don't even to bother.

It's better to read the story first and hope that someone make a fairly decent adaptation.

Boomcoach 05 Aug 09 at 3:41 p.m. GMT

This reply contains spoiler information. Show reply

Judy, there was a fairly decent made-for-TV version of "Murder is Easy" done in 1984, with Bill Bixby as Luke.  It updates the book to the, then, present day, but otherwise sticks with the story pretty well.

Bixby is anything but scintillating, but a short appearance by Helen Hayes, along with performances by Olivia de Haviland and Lesley-Anne Down make the movie quite watchable, even if the modern setting removes much of the quaintness of the original.

To answer your question, there is not any incest in the book.

Judy45432 05 Aug 09 at 3:15 p.m. GMT

My favorite versions of the PBS miniseries of Mystery! (seen in New York City) are the ones with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple.  I think she was the epitome of the character presented in Agatha Christie's novels, both in her physical appearance and her portrayal of Miss Marple.  My favorite, Sleeping Murder, adhered to the book.

I read Murder is Easy a long time ago, but I do not recall that incest was involved in the original story.  Am I wrong?  I found this episode tasteless.

I found it hard to watch Geraldine McEwen as Miss Marple - she reminded me of Clara Bow and just a bit too sweet.  I think Julia McKenzie is better but still not as good as Joan Hickson.

I am currently rereading some of my old favorites.

Boomcoach 05 Aug 09 at 11:26 a.m. GMT

I liked the Joan Hickson version of Nemesis.  It followed the book reasonably well.  I rewatched the McEwen Nemesis the other day, and tried to watch it with an open mind, as the first time I watched it, I couldn't get past the fact that it held practically no relation to the book.

I tried to look at the McEwan version of Nemesis as a entity unto itself, without comparing it to anything.  It was a much more watchable movie, if I ignored the book, but I still cannot say that it was "good".  The plot did not hold together particularly well, but I was able to accept McEwan as Miss M better than the first time.  I cannot call it an adaptation, but it was a watchable movie, which is more than can be said for the new versions of "Murder is Easy" and "Evans".

I do not know if any others on here are fans of the British comedy "As Time Goes By", but some of these "adaptations" remind me of the story arc when they are turning Lionel's book into a mini-series.  They make so many changes that the stories are not recognizable.

SH4Kinder 04 Aug 09 at 10:20 p.m. GMT

My "hit list" of books that were ruined starts at Sleeping Murder, goes on to The Sittaford Mystery, includes Nemesis, Murder is Easy, and ends at Why Didn't They Ask Evans?.

I totally disagree. I loved Sleeping Murder & Nemesis.  But the silly American version of Murder on the Orient Express was absolutly AWFUL! and I couldn't even sit through the whole film without falling asleep.

SH4Kinder 04 Aug 09 at 9:54 p.m. GMT

WITH THE TV SHOWS, WHY CAN'T THEY JUST STICK TO AGATHA CHRISTIE'S TRUE PLOT AND REAL CHARACTERS? WHY CHANGE SO MUCH!? THE NEW SHOWS AREN'T EVEN REAL "MISS MARPLE" PLOTS.

Boomcoach 03 Aug 09 at 3:37 p.m. GMT

AndThenThereWasTim

Now that I think of it the Car thing was strange... I Didn't catch the Gay thing but I wasn't paying that close attention.. Boomoach i think your being a little too picky Dates and Times can be decieving and It doesn't make any difference. As most of them I have not read this one and I imagine if I had I might be dissapointed I Agree with Leafs.. I think Marple was too confusing and they should have left it with 2 NOT 3 investigators

You are quite right about being too picky.  As I said, this sort of thing I would normally shrug off, except it was just another annoying part of what I found to be a rather horrible adaptation.

I thought that Miss M fitted into "Murder is Easy" more smoothly than she did "Evans".  It may have something to do with the actual detectives in the original books.  Luke FitzWilliam was a professional, and Marple helping a professional is pretty standard for her.  A lot of the fun in "Evans" is the amateurish way in which Frankie and Bobbie stumble through their roles as detectives.  Miss Marple seems to quash that.  I just thought that the whole feel of "Evans" was off.

TheMole 03 Aug 09 at 2:36 p.m. GMT

But didn't Frankie introduce herself to them when she first entered their home after her accident? Or did she use a false name? (I am referring to the book.)

S_Sigerson 03 Aug 09 at 2:15 p.m. GMT

Bobby and Frankie stumble their way through the mystery and come off as amateurish. Don't get me wrong , it was a fun lark and an enjoyable book that I would highly recommend to anyone, yet with such an ingenious plot it had potential to be a really first-rate mystery, ranked up there with The Murder on the Orient Express and The ABC Murders; not just simply a light hearted adventure.  Why Didn't They ask Evans? reads too much like a T&T thriller. As far as gaining admittance into the house, Miss. Marple, a sweet elderly lady who seems to know everyone and Hercule Poirot, the world's most famous detective, would have stood a much better chance of getting in. Who are Frankie and Bobbie? Just a couple of kids. As far as crashing your car in front of someone's gates...do you really think the owners would ask a young person, a total stranger (who for all they know could be homicidal maniac or a crook out to steal the family silver) to stay the weekend? I doubt it. However, if the highly respectable Miss. Marple or highly esteemed Hercule Poirot were experiencing car problems, I am sure they could easily have finagled an invite for the weekend. 

Tommy_A_Jones 03 Aug 09 at 11:06 a.m. GMT

I agree with you in one way Boomcoach, some books might have been better without him but I wouldn't include The Hollow I would say 'The Clocks' and 'Appointment with Death' the play didn't have him and I think the woman who was the Detective in the Play and perhaps Cope could have been the Detectives Also I think if Adaptations aren't going to be accurate with Dates/Characters etc why do them at all. 

AndThenThereWasTim 03 Aug 09 at 1:20 a.m. GMT

Now that I think of it the Car thing was strange... I Didn't catch the Gay thing but I wasn't paying that close attention.. Boomoach i think your being a little too picky Dates and Times can be decieving and It doesn't make any difference. As most of them I have not read this one and I imagine if I had I might be dissapointed I Agree with Leafs.. I think Marple was too confusing and they should have left it with 2 NOT 3 investigators

go_leafs_nation 01 Aug 09 at 6:38 p.m. GMT

Boomcoach

I would go a step further and siggest that there were a couple of Poirot books that would have been better without him.  Cat Among the Pigeons and The Hollow seem to have him there as a sort of sinecure, so that the book can be a "Hercule Poirot Mystery"

Although I agree Poirot doesn't fit in certain books, I find he works in those two. True, he appears late in Cat- but who could've possibly tied the ends together if not Poirot? Mr. Goby? As for The Hollow, AC hated putting Poirot in it (I believe), but I thought he fitted decently. He didn't stand out as obviously as in, say, The Mystery of the Blue Train (that has always had the feel of a T&T for me).

Boomcoach 01 Aug 09 at 5:11 p.m. GMT

I would go a step further and siggest that there were a couple of Poirot books that would have been better without him.  Cat Among the Pigeons and The Hollow seem to have him there as a sort of sinecure, so that the book can be a "Hercule Poirot Mystery"

TheMole 01 Aug 09 at 12:42 p.m. GMT

I can appreciate the expert detectives as well as the amateur detectives. As for the latter, think of how monotonous it would be if AC only wrote about Marple and Poirot. And Then There Were None would not have been the same if Marple and Poirot were in it.

Tommy_A_Jones 01 Aug 09 at 12:39 p.m. GMT

I thoutght Patrick Barlow was brilliant, I did at first thought Anthony Andrews portrayal was too severe but Tommy was understandably worried about Tuppence so I let it go, I didn't for some reason notice Tuppence was portrayed as an alcoholic so I really liked Greta Satchi's portrayal.

go_leafs_nation 01 Aug 09 at 11:43 a.m. GMT

WINNEBAGO1901

btw, it seems to me the only non-Miss Marple book they have put her in which hasn't been criticized is 'By The Pricking of My Thumb which apart from having Miss Marple added was quite good.

I liked Thumbs. It took many liberties with the plot, but the menacing and mysterious dark atmosphere remained. That's the key ingredient that made the adaptation both liberal and entertaining.

go_leafs_nation 01 Aug 09 at 11:38 a.m. GMT

S_Sigerson

Not having a qualified detective undermines the novel. Bobby and Frankie are amateurs. Introducing Miss. Marple strengthens the major weakness of an otherwise strong story. Miss. Marple has the experience and knowledge and Bobby and Frankie have the youthfulness and vitality, one of the best parts of Why Didn’t They Ask Evans? is the interaction between Miss. Marple and Bobby and Frankie.

I find that very interesting, because I think not having a "real" detective made the book stronger. Poirot wouldn't have crashed his car like Frankie, and why would the family let Miss Marple in among them? Only amateurs could get into the mysterious situations Frankie and Bobby did, and the veritable chemistry between them made it that much better. Sure, they're amateurs- that's what makes it even more fun. Evans, after all, was a fun, light read.

Tommy_A_Jones 01 Aug 09 at 10:16 a.m. GMT

I repeat Britain hasn't seen this yet but I would say there are many AC Books without qualified Detectives which are very good (The Man In The Brown Suit comes to mind) If all Crime Novels needed a Qualifiedf detective nany very good books would have nevere been published, lastly the more yoy post your views which you are entiltled to I think you have a relation who is one of thge makers so your judgement may be impaired, btw, it seems to me the only non-Miss Marple book they have put her in which hasn't been criticized is 'By The Pricking of My Thumb which apart from having Miss Marple added was quite good.

S_Sigerson 01 Aug 09 at 2:32 a.m. GMT

Not having a qualified detective undermines the novel. Bobby and Frankie are amateurs. Introducing Miss. Marple strengthens the major weakness of an otherwise strong story. Miss. Marple has the experience and knowledge and Bobby and Frankie have the youthfulness and vitality, one of the best parts of Why Didn’t They Ask Evans? is the interaction between Miss. Marple and Bobby and Frankie.

go_leafs_nation 31 Jul 09 at 10:36 p.m. GMT

TheMole

I agree w/ you about the worst Marple's filmed so far. But I just can't decide which of them is the all time worst? What's the absolute worst for you, go leafs?

It's undoubtedly The Sittaford Mystery. Its poor direction, masquerading as elegant, was one of them. It was a bad script (the bathtub scene being the mushiest in AC film history), the characters were unengaging, the acting was subpar. The whole show can be summed up in one word: random.

Why Didn't They Ask Evans? is a close second, followed by Sleeping Murder, Murder is Easy, and then Nemesis (which was, I confess, slightly entertaining for me, but in the end, not much of a movie).

As for Sir Carmichael, he's doing fine.

TheMole 31 Jul 09 at 10:28 p.m. GMT

go_leafs_nation

Sir Carmichael Clarke (he hasn't been on in a while) summed it up best on the old site. I don't remember his exact wording, but he treated the series as a recipe, adding in (say) 1 cup of lesbians, 1/2 a cup of alcholics, etc. That seems to be the direction Evans? took.

LOL I think I remember him saying that. How is Sir doing, btw?

My "hit list" of books that were ruined starts at Sleeping Murder, goes on to The Sittaford Mystery, includes Nemesis, Murder is Easy, and ends at Why Didn't They Ask Evans?.

I agree w/ you about the worst Marple's filmed so far. But I just can't decide which of them is the all time worst? What's the absolute worst for you, go leafs?

go_leafs_nation 31 Jul 09 at 10:23 p.m. GMT

I'm not a completely conservative Christie fan. AC wasn't perfect, and neither were her books. Some of them were badly in need of changes (Third Girl jumps into mind). "Marple" however, has, more than once altered plots so badly they just didn't work at all. My "hit list" of books that were ruined starts at Sleeping Murder, goes on to The Sittaford Mystery, includes Nemesis, Murder is Easy, and ends at Why Didn't They Ask Evans?.

Sir Carmichael Clarke (he hasn't been on in a while) summed it up best on the old site. I don't remember his exact wording, but he treated the series as a recipe, adding in (say) 1 cup of lesbians, 1/2 a cup of alcholics, etc. That seems to be the direction Evans? took.

TheMole 31 Jul 09 at 10:08 p.m. GMT

Miss Marple had no business being in this book. If AC wanted Marple in Evans she would have put her in there. I think, imho, if Dame Agatha Christie were alive today she would have been displeased over the direction that her non-series books are taking. Not only are her wonderfully vivid characters being added and deleted but the plot and scenarios have been drastically changed for the worst. I'm sure she would understand that certain things have to change for it to translate on screen but not to this elaborate extent. Like so many of you have pointed out, I will do the same: thank goodness there is a 1980's version of Evans or the book would be tarnished by this ridiculous new adapt.

S_Sigerson 31 Jul 09 at 5:52 p.m. GMT

It would be nice if PBS stops editing these programs. If they run for 100 minutes then allocate 100 minutes plus 5 minutes to do the intro and prologue.  This is a mystery and it's important we see what the director and/or editor wants us to see. Editing an action adventure or comedy is quite another kettle of fish. 

I am still for updating Miss. Marple to the present while keeping Julia McKenzie as Miss. Marple. They Do It With Mirrors, could easily have been updated to the present day and would have been a great introduction to the new series. I know people have voiced their objection. However, I firmly believe in the right hands this could be a wonderful series.

I am looking forward to the next batch of Poirot’s with David Suchet.

S_Sigerson 31 Jul 09 at 5:04 p.m. GMT

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Part 2

• Bobby, Frankie and Miss. Marple put two and two together and discover the truth. They rush to Sylvia Savage’s room just in time to stop Roger and Moira from giving her a fatal drug overdose. And no this scene does not last for 15 minutes.
• Final scene - Bobby, Frankie and Miss. Marple are sitting having tea on the front lawn of Bobby’s house. Miss. Marple explains the case and introduces the real Evans.

Of course this is just a rough outline. My main concern was continuity. Basically I listed the more important scenes so the story flows smoothly. You go from A to B to C.....

Motive: 700,000 Pounds or some large amount left to Dr. Nicholson in the fake will. If Roger and Moira did not frame him for Claude Evan’s murder, they would eventually have disposed of him. You might be asking, why not arrange it so they are left the money directly? Simple, in case it's discovered Jack Savage did not die from natural causes. Dr. Nicholson is the perfect patsy. He had opportunity and motive. In the end, Roger and Moira get their revenge for the murder of their father and get part of the Savage fortune, which they are entitled to.

Of course, more interaction between Roger and Sylvia Savage is necessary, so you get the impression they are lovers, but in reality they are not. In the end we find out Roger is the one supplying Sylvia with drugs. Frankie is torn between the good for nothing gigolo, Roger and the rather dull, yet good hearted Public Schoolboy, Bobby, a recurrent theme with Agatha Christie.

S_Sigerson 31 Jul 09 at 5:02 p.m. GMT

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Part 1

•  Bobby finds body (Carstairs suspects his good friend, Jack Savage’s death in not natural and believes there is something wrong with the will, so Carstairs must be gotten out of the way, but it needs to look like an accident.)
• Inquest – ruled death by misadventure (all the suspects attend). There is no reason for Carstairs to be known as Pritchard.
• After the inquest Bobby’s remembers the important clue and mentions it to all those involved.
• Someone makes an attempt on Bobby’s life – police reopen the case, Commander Peters is brought in to investigate in an official capacity.
• Frankie, Bobby and Miss. Marple infiltrate the Savage household (Miss. Marple as Frankie’s dear old Aunt and Bobby in disguise as Frankie’s chauffer.  As one of the characters said in the book, nobody looks at a chauffeur the same way they look at a person.
• Claude Evan’s is found murdered (Why? Because in China Jack told him to get rid of his niece and nephew, Claude could not bring himself to do this. Instead he puts them in an orphanage. However, he begins to suspect Roger and Moira and so he needs to be dealt with before he is able to voice his suspicions. Roger and Moira frame her husband.
• Perhaps, at some point Roger is examining the portrait of George Savage and makes some comments (in front of Miss. Marple) about what a fine man he was.  She thinks this is strange because Roger never knew the man.
• Bobby snoops around the servant’s hall and discoveries some important information.

S_Sigerson 31 Jul 09 at 4:55 p.m. GMT

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A mystery is like a jigsaw puzzle – all the pieces must fit together. I loved series 1, 2 and liked most of series 3. I found the first two Miss. Marples (A Pocket Full of Rye and Murder is Easy) enjoyable. I had some issues, but overall they were good. However, with the last two Miss. Marples, I found too many major inconsistencies.

I had no problem with the plot of Why Didn't They Ask Evans?. Could a brother murder his brother to get his hands on the family fortune and his brother’s wife? Yes. Biblical you might even say. Could a woman leave her two children behind because of a man? Yes.  It’s despicable, but plausible. Under such circumstances, I see why she became addicted to drugs. Two people brought up by a monster for a father and an unstable mother with a substance abuse problem, stand a good chance of having major psychological issues. I knew what the writer was trying to convey, but the writing and execution were terrible. Instead of presenting a realistic and believable dysfunctional family, the writer and director presented a bunch of strange and erratic individuals who were just so over the top, they were unbelievable. I actually agree with Goleafs, it would have been nice if the murderer would have done away with Dottie, preferably early on.             

I had a major problem with the ending, especially with the elderly butler (holding a gun no less) and Miss. Marple standing outside a bedroom door listening. After this it even gets more ridiculous. The ending was just too far fetched. We all know you need to suspend your disbelief, but there comes to a point when you can’t suspend your disbelief and only look on with bewilderment.

Now here is how it could have gone…….

go_leafs_nation 31 Jul 09 at 2:26 p.m. GMT

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Evans, like all the other Marples, is set in the 50s, ruining much of the original story. You can easily tell durings its "contemplative" moments ("It seems that all of England got richer... except us..."- Meanwhile, I'm tempted to smash my TV screen). Also, Bobby was the only one fighting an imaginary enemy in an imaginary war, obviously a recreation of WWII. PBS probably cut a lot out, but either way, Evans was a failure. Besides, the orchid grower was the worst character of the lot, added in to cram the "Evans" clue down the audience's throat.

Now, for the climax: how ridiculous is that? I'd love to attend the trial that resulted, as the lawyers battled out whether the defendant indeed murdered Moira or whether it was acceptable "self-defence".

Bottom line: Evans left me quite upset, and I'm lucky we still have a television in this house.

TheMole 31 Jul 09 at 1:04 p.m. GMT

Hello!

You're absolutely right. Just b/c people have heard the complaints doesn't mean that anyone is going to do anything about it. But at least they know we feel about the way her work has been portrayed. But I digress.

You could go on YouTube or pbs. org to watch Evans.

Tommy_A_Jones 31 Jul 09 at 12:59 p.m. GMT

Hi Mole, We might be being heard but that doesn't mean anybody cares about our opinion or is going to take any notice, In Britain people wrtite to programmes where peoples views are aired and people have been moaning for ages about the screan being halved to make way for Credits and credits going too fast but still those things happen so just because people know how angry some of us are doesn't mean they care or that things will change, btw, am now curious about 'Evans' which Britain hasn't seen yet but am not expecting to be able to say 'Brilliant, The Good old days are Back'

TheMole 30 Jul 09 at 10:06 p.m. GMT

It looks to me as if it were set in the early nineteen fifties. I looked on Wikipedia to see if it had an exact date for when this new adapt took place but I couldn't find it. I did read something interesting in a topic about McKenzie as Miss Marple, there was a paragraph about the controversy over the new Miss Marple adapts saying that fans were not please w/ how the screenwriters have changed the motives, along w/ placing Miss Marple in books that she doesn't belong. So it looks as if all of us AC fans are being heard.

To Tim: I agree w/ you about Mrs. McGinty's Dead, it was very intense. But I have a slightly new appreciation for it since the Evans adapt :0)

Boomcoach 30 Jul 09 at 5:02 p.m. GMT

Something else that bugged me in the new version of "Evans".  Commander Peters, says that he was "in the Flying Squad" for 40 years.  Now the original book was set in 1935.  From the car, this may have been set post-WWII, but the Flying Squad didn't start until the 20's, and this episode hardly looked to be set in the 60's.

I am not normally bothered by anachronisms, but in a production this bad, this was one more annoying point.

TheMole 30 Jul 09 at 1:55 p.m. GMT

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I second that Boomcoach.

I'd also like to add that one of the other worst parts about "Evans" was that Frankie's persona was really changed. In the book, she was spunky, witty and fun loving...Not nearly as delightful and fun loving as Bundle Brent is of course. But in the adapt instead of Frankie being spunky she was just plain rude, particularly to Miss Marple. And she certainly wasn't fun loving either, she was an incurable flirt and an annoying muckraker. But I don't blame the actress who played her: she did the best she could w/ the script she was given. Now Sean Biggerstaff really had the look of Bobby & I was pleased, however Bobby's persona was also changed. The adapt made Bobbie seem like a dreary dud. But again he did the best he could w/ the script.

Of course the ending was an absolute mess! I mean why would Moira stop putting the syringe inside of Sylvia just because Miss Marple was squeamish? I know Moira was crazy but she was also ruthless....it made no sense. And the whole reveal was too violent and dramatic. And the snake on Moira's back was ridiculous!

Boomcoach 30 Jul 09 at 10:51 a.m. GMT

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Finally got to watch "Evans" last night and was shaking my head the entire time.  If the writers are going to comepletely rewrite the story, why even use the title?  Its not like it is even a Miss Marple story.  Give the storyline its own name and put "inspired by 'Why Didn't They Ask Evans'" in the credits.

It seems like they reached into the book and pulled out half a dozen pages and used plot points from those pages.  "Oooh, crashed her car, let's use that!"   "Pretend he's a chauffeur, that will work!"

Shoving a gay orchid grower named Evans into a storyline that is already convoluted, simply for a red herring seemed pointless; the "I was Goth before Goth was cool" son and the "desperate for sex" daughter added nothing to the story.

Agatha Christie's strength's were always her plots.  While she wrote some good characters, they were not her strongest point.  To abandon both plotline and characterization mean you have nothing left of Christie except a couple of names (and very few of those, although I was amused to have the name "Pongo" thrown in, a bit of channelling from "Seven Dials".

I thought that JM did a servicable job as Jane Marple, but as I could never find any feel of Agatha Christie in the story itself, I never got much of a feel for Miss Marple in it either.

At least the 70's version of "Evans" was faithful and fairly well cast, if a bit overlong.

AndThenThereWasTim 29 Jul 09 at 9:48 p.m. GMT

Really? I loved it.. I thought it got rather confusing though with Miss Marple in the mix and the drug thing was wierd.. But all in all I liked it.

TheMole 28 Jul 09 at 9:18 p.m. GMT

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I've seen "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" & most of it was dreadful. This is one of the first AC books I had ever read, which was about two years ago. I haven't re-read it since but I remember certain things about it like who the did it, the main characters, & certain places but I don't remember everything, so I was able to view the adapt w/ knowledge & also from just a regular viewer stand point.

For starters I was disappointed w/ the fact that Bobby Jones (not Attfield!) was not playing golf when he found Carstairs. I believe go leafs mentioned that Bobbie & a few of his friends' were recreating war scenes however I didn't see it b/c PBS must have deleted that scene -- in a way I am kind of glad that they did; the less drastic changes to be seen the better! But why on earth didn't they let Bobby find Carstairs wallet w/ the photo of Moira inside? The fact that he went to Carstair's lodgings & went through his possessions only to find that photo was absolutely absurd! So the authorities actually didn't go through Carstairs things already!? Wouldn't they have collected that as evidence? That was a big discrepancy on the part of the screen writers & it really is insulting to us as the audience, as if we wouldn't notice something like that.

But other than those things the first 40 minutes wasn't completely bad. Miss Marple hadn't really gotten involved in the case & I was hopeful that she would only offer suggestions to Frankie & Bobbie as to where to look for clues & then leave them alone. But that was ruined when she posed as Frankie's governess. Her appearance (though I do like Marple) was irksome but her sudden entrance in the "Savage" abode was a nice way to do it.

AndThenThereWasTim 26 Jul 09 at 2:16 a.m. GMT

The DVDs are now on sale.. Sold as Poirot Movie Set 4 On Netflix as well Miss Marple Set comes out on the 4th I believe.

Loved Cat. True to the Book.. I agree with Mole.. Thought Bulstrode-Poirot Relation was good.

McGinty Was a little too intense.. I agree thought Ms. Oliver wasn't funny enough. Though they did have "Now if a woman was running Scotland Yard..." That was good. I've never read the book so I cant judge.

Easy was a bit wierd. The Woman (cant remember her name) With the special needs brother also plaid Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter Movies and her voice was so distracting it ruined the movie. Though I thought the other characters were very vivid. I Liked the MP and his wife thought they were a good match for the book.

Pocket Full Of Rye I didn't see enough to judge. My mother insisted on me coming down to help her so I missed half the show.

Murder w/ mirrors was pretty good. Characters were a bit dry though and you really didn't know the victim well enough to sympathise. Thought the Matriarch (cant remember her name) was very good.

All In all I LOVED Julia McKinsey In the role.. Had a nice voice (Unlike Ms.McEwan) kind looking (Unlike Joan Hickson). Worked PERFECT in the Role. Cant Wait till Why Didn't They ask The Evans

I think what leafs is trying to say is that they go out of the way to write gay affairs into the adaptations ("Cards on the Table")or creating them when relationships are questionable ("Murder is Announced") I personally dont think that the characters in Murder is Announced Are gay but I will be fought as I have been before. I think that if she intended the characters to be gay she certainly didn't make it very clear which can easily be seen in on both sides. I personally think that creating scenarios to fit your political and moral beliefs in the adaptations is wrong and ruins the plot of the movie. Especially when you change the Killer ("McEwan Body in the Library")

S_Sigerson 26 Jul 09 at 1:49 a.m. GMT

I had no problem with They Do It With Mirrors with the Joan Hickson. Even the one with with Helen Hayes worked well. In both I was able to follow the story without being confused. I don't know about the book. It's been a long time since I read it.  

Tommy_A_Jones 25 Jul 09 at 10:46 a.m. GMT

You are right S Siegerson, bith Adaptations have masde me hope the Book is better

S_Sigerson 22 Jul 09 at 3:49 p.m. GMT

I remember there was a brother in the television movie with Joan Hickson because Stephen and Alexis Restarick were played by real life brothers, Christopher and Jay Villiers. I thought it was interesting and worked well..similar physical characterstics and the chemistry between the two. I don't remember the brother from the book, but it has been a while since I read the book. For some reason I thought they added the character to the television movie. What is the common expression...my bad..or something to that effect.   

Delicious_Death 22 Jul 09 at 8:14 a.m. GMT

Hello everyone.  I have been reading your comments for a long time and find it all most enjoyable, but this is the first time I have posted anything. 

S Sigerson says earlier in this thread:

 "Stephen Restarick was introduced in the Joan Hickson version. I would say the reason was to add another suspect to the list. In the book Alex Restarick did not have a brother. Johnny Restarick was mentioned in passing."

This is incorrect.  Stephen Restarick is very much present in the book and it is made quite clear that he and Alex are brothers.  We are told that Johnny Restarick is their father, but he does not appear in the book.

S_Sigerson 22 Jul 09 at 12:53 a.m. GMT

What are the odds of an elderly woman from a small village being involved in a murder investigation everywhere she goes? She walks down the village high street and stumbles over a corpse. So let's not talk about likelihoods. Besides, only two gay couples out of all those stories. Statistically there might not be enough gay couples.          

go_leafs_nation 22 Jul 09 at 12:27 a.m. GMT

Still, out of all the homosexual relationships going on in the 50s, how likely is it that several gay couples will get involved in murder cases that not only involve both lovers, but is investigated each time by the same old Miss Marple?

Feel free to think what you'd like, but I would argue that your argument was flawed. Here, it's more of a matter of opinion in this case than fact.

S_Sigerson 22 Jul 09 at 12:10 a.m. GMT

Doesn't change the fact your argument is flawed. And I am sure people had homosexual relationships (long term ones at that) in the 1950's. I could name several British actors who were in long term relationships with people of their own gender in the early to late 20th century. I could even name a French writer who was involved in a long term relationship at the turn of the century. Granted it was difficult to live openly, but people knew and the majority of people who knew could have cared less. 

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 11:50 p.m. GMT

You forget that Tennessee Williams' work (incidentally, not a favourite of mine) was unconventional to say the least. I find it hard to believe that ordinary people, in a time where homosexuality was non-existant as far as society was concerned, would be able to find their mutual feelings for each other and then risk all for an intimate relationship. Particularly as frequently as it's happened to Miss Marple. It would be easier to swallow in, say, the 60s, where unconventionality really "took off", but definately not the 50s. It's not impossible, but it's improbable for Miss Marple to have uncovered it as often as she has. However, it doesn't look like we'll agree on this particular point, either.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 8:04 p.m. GMT

Your analogy doesn't work. If there is a gay character in a play written in the 1950's, it's nonsensical to say a gay character, in a comtemporary television movie that takes place in 1950's, is out of place.    

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 7:24 p.m. GMT

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Let me make myself clear: Kevin Elyot's writing is strong enough that this altered ending does not seem out of place. It is a rather clever twist, but one that I am not a fan of. What seems strange is that gay relationships are encountered so frequently by Miss Marple.

When Hitchcock made Rope, (released in 1948, which I'd say is close enough for this analogy), there was a scandal because the film was involved with "It" (homosexuality was referred to as "It"), even though it was extremely subtle. Robin Wood, in his book "Hitchcock's Films Revisited" (a highly recommended book, btw), when discussing Rope, went on to describe the atmosphere at the time regarding homosexuality (which he knew about first-hand). Having read this, I find it even more incredible than before to believe the amount of gay love affairs in this series, both explicit and suggested.

One more quick thing: You mentioned, earlier, that the theatrical makeup would've smeared on Louis, but he wasn't wearing any when murdering Christian. He put it on for the performance, but not the rehearsal.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 7:03 p.m. GMT

Homosexuality is frowned upon to this day by certain people. Yet people are still in homosexual relationships. So what's the difference between 2009, 1953, 1920, 1870 or 2500 B.C.? Human nature is human nature. For that matter homosexuality is not retricted to only humans beings. It occurs in the animal kingdom as well. Previously, I mentioned  Tennessee William's play, A Cat On A Hot Tin Roof, which has a gay character...two in fact, one mentioned in passing. It was written and first performed in the 1950's. So how can   Kevin Elyot's  twist in Body in the Library, which takes place in the early 1950's, be out of place when Tennessee William's A Cat On A Hot Tin Roof also takes place in the early 1950's and was actually written in the 1950's?

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 5:17 p.m. GMT

As with morning and evening rushhour, lunchtime can also be a busy and chaotic time on the London Underground. Near the beginning of program when the murder happens, we see the body tumbling down the escalator, and yes a man does try and catch the person when they are falling down. At the bottom of the escalator we only see a closeup of the feet. There is no way to tell if people are gathering on the otherside of the body where the camera is positioned. In the flashback, you see people's feet as they walk past the body getting off the escalator. Given the position of body people couldn't stop and stand just as they got off because it would create a log jam. Anyone getting off the escalator would need to walk around the body to where the the camera is positioned. Do we need to see bystanders? No. It's an action scene that lasts less than a minute. Sloppy filmmaking? Not at all.     

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 5:09 p.m. GMT

Well, homosexuality was extremely frowned upon at the time. I think it's quite unlikely therefore for there to have been homosexual affairs (although people seem to love to believe in "the power of love") at the time, and in such quantity as Miss Marple encounters. The 70s? All right, I guess. The 60s? OK. The 50s? Seems out of place.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 5:06 p.m. GMT

It was around lunchtime. Miss Pinkerton asked Miss Marple "do you think Scotland Yard closes for lunch?". The flashback is shown twice, and people's reactions are shown. One man tried to grab her. Yet everyone who got off walked by, including that man- we know this because it is later shown that the feet walking by belong to the murderer. I think this is sloppy filmmaking at its worst, but let's just agree to disagree.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 5:04 p.m. GMT

And what was the purpose (in relation to the mystery) of Carrie Louise going skinny dipping with her daughter? I doubt someone who is British and in Carrie Louise's social position at that age would go skinny dipping with their daughter. Talking about out of character and out of place.

If Lewis adored Carrie Louise (which we know he did), he would have deferred to her wishes. We can infer from her reaction to seeing  Johnny Restarick that she still liked him, so I am sure she would have said to Lewis, "please have one of the servants make up a guest room". Even if Lewis hated Johnny Restarick he would have acquiesced to his wife's wishes, partly because of devotion to her and partly because in that strata of society you are civil to those who are guests in your home.  Housing Johnny Restarick with the youth offenders made absolutely no sense in the social context.    

"It's extremely unlikely for there to have been love affairs of this sort in the timeframe of the films- while not imopssible, it most definately is hard to believe." I find this statement hard to believe.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 4:20 p.m. GMT

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We see a flashback that last a few seconds. We do not have the opportunity to see the people react. When something like this happens it takes the human mind  time to make the connections and act.

And yes,  there are some people who would walk right passed the body especially if this happened in the morning when people were rushing to work. Eventually, a few concerned citizens would stop to see what was happening and try to help.

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 4:19 p.m. GMT

I see both of your points of view, S. Sigerson and go leafs.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 4:16 p.m. GMT

One more thing: I quickly rewatched the escalator murder once more, and I'm afraid your point doesn't fit much, S Sigerson. Her death was a LOUD one- people jumped out of the way, she screamed unbelievably. Either way, she landed right near the escalators. Yet people walk calmly by, and there's no crowd as there oten is at the scene of an accident. I'm fairly certain that deaths like that are not that common in the tube... At least, I'd hope so...

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 4:12 p.m. GMT

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Was anyone disappointed that the murderer was no longer an old lady?? That's what I got from the title Murder is Easy like it's so easy an old lady could do it.

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 4:11 p.m. GMT

S_Sigerson

The escalator was invented over a hundred years ago.

Yes, but it's still more recent then a staircase. :0)

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 4:06 p.m. GMT

The escalator was invented over a hundred years ago.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 4:06 p.m. GMT

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Although I can see your point, I at the same time don't like that single shot in the flashback, where the killer walks right by the body. There's no one there. Please, are people in the Tube really going "oh, a dead body- how inconsiderate of people to die in my way..."?

I found the book's motive actually strong. She killed people because a) she was a maniac and b) she wanted to frame the man who had broken her heart, and then gone on to get rich. Psychotic people don't need much of a motive; their motive makes sense to them. (Case in point: Hitchcock's fabulous Strangers on a Train.)

I nonetheless feel that the plot became too convoluted and dumbed down. It went from a cozy mystery just right for Miss Marple to "what happens when Tommy dies and Tuppence should be in an old age home".

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 4:01 p.m. GMT

I agreed w/ you. :0)

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 3:59 p.m. GMT

TheMole, ever been in a London tube station? It can be crowded and total chaos. People are jostling each other, focused (myself included) on getting from A to B with little regard for others. You are not going to be that observant.  

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 3:58 p.m. GMT

You make a very valid point about how hectic it is in the tube station, S. Sigerson. But I think the escalator thing instead of the stairs was way too modern I am assuming that it was changed from a flight of stairs because somehow (??) an escalator is more appealing to new audiences so in a sense it has dumb down the plot.

But LOL it's a good thing that I have read Murder is Easy otherwise I would have been confused!

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 3:53 p.m. GMT

I would have prefered the method of murder in the book. But people have died falling down steps. Those escalators are pretty steep. She was elderly so any fall could be dangerous. It can be hectic in a tube station in Londnon. Why do you feel it is dreadful? The motive was strong and believable. They did alter the motive, but the one is the novel wasn't all that convincing. The murderer did do away with a lot people.  The new motive is stronger and given the personality of the murderer I can believe the lengths they went to. With the motive in the novel - I am no so sure given the number of corpses.  Perhaps most importantly the viewer could follow the story in Murder is Easy. There was no confusion. 

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 3:33 p.m. GMT

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go_leafs_nation

For instance, please explain to me how the escalator murder worked. It goes two ways, side-by-side. It was not only bound to be witnessed, but also would more likely result in injury than death. Besides, how does the killer walk right beside the body, coolly, and then walk away? Wouldn't there be a crowd?

I second all of that. Besides when Honoria pushed Ms. Pinkerton down the escalator Honoria was the only one standing directly behind her, and everyone goggled past the former and not one of them noticed that it was possible that this woman had something do w/ Ms. Pinkerton's fall??! It doesn't add up.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 3:25 p.m. GMT

S_Sigerson

Why do you consider Murder is Easy dreadful?

Personally, I found that the plot changes convoluted and made more impossible a rather cozy novel that had enough plot to make it perfect for a TV adaptation. The changes didn't work in the least, despite strong performances and direction. For instance, please explain to me how the escalator murder worked. It goes two ways, side-by-side. It was not only bound to be witnessed, but also would more likely result in injury than death. Besides, how does the killer walk right beside the body, coolly, and then walk away? Wouldn't there be a crowd?

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 3:23 p.m. GMT

The Hickson films are far more wooden in film technique than the recent ones. Although both are TV movies, Hickson's show it far more. Let's compare the two "discovery of the corpse" shots, for instance: in Hickson, we have a rather confusing close-up (we can't tell what it is at first), that gradually pans until we see Christian dead (starting with his glasses). At the same time, some rather lazy-sounding brass instruments play, and fail to add much. In Mackenzie's, we have a medium shot that shows far more detail. However, it focuses on the dagger first before arching over to Christian's face At the same time, Dominik Scherrer's music suddenly palys, simulating shock and horror. I prefer this technique more. While still a TV movie, it resembles a film far more.

I also could easily imagine Lewis dressing up like a Native American because Carrie Louise asked him to-- they adored each other. As for the skinny dipping, it seems out of place, but on reflection, totally in character. If someone tells Carrie Louise that [insert something here] is marvelous, and she must try it out, she would do so.

And I too doubt whether Carrie Louise would approve of Johnny being put up with the convicts, but it seems to me that Lewis had the final say in that particular matter.

Overall, I don't think They Do It With Mirrors was dumbed down. The novel had a very weak plot and characters, and these flaws were sharpened. I enjoyed the adaptation tremendously.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 3:22 p.m. GMT

S_Sigerson

In the novel, Nemesis, it might be possible to infer the murderer was gay. However, Agatha Christie wrote the novel. She also included gay characters in the novel, Murder is Announced. In Bertram's Hotel, the murderer has an affair with a person of the opposit sex. So out of twenty seven Miss. Marples the writer(s) who adapted the stories made one cuplrit gay in one story. You did not answer my question, how is it  unlikely for the time period to include a gay character? 

They all look like tv movies (Hickon, McEwan McKenzie) because that is what they are. Budget restraints. With films you tend to (but not always) to have bigger budgets. 

The gay subplots in AC are extremely subtle to say the least, while the adapts bring them out and flaunt them. The ending of At Bertram's Hotel suggest a gay love affair, and the same with Nemesis. If there were hints of these in the books, they were hidden (almost non-existant), while the adaptation brings them out. It's extremely unlikely for there to have been love affairs of this sort in the timeframe of the films- while not imopssible, it most definately is hard to believe.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 3:14 p.m. GMT

Why do you consider Murder is Easy dreadful?

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 3:01 p.m. GMT

In the novel, Nemesis, it might be possible to infer the murderer was gay. However, Agatha Christie wrote the novel. She also included gay characters in the novel, Murder is Announced. In Bertram's Hotel, the murderer has an affair with a person of the opposit sex. So out of twenty seven Miss. Marples the writer(s) who adapted the stories made one cuplrit gay in one story. You did not answer my question, how is it  unlikely for the time period to include a gay character? 

They all look like tv movies (Hickon, McEwan McKenzie) because that is what they are. Budget restraints. With films you tend to (but not always) to have bigger budgets. 

The whole American Indian theme is ludicrous, annoying and most definitely does not fit in. Talking about jarring or out of place. And I might add this is something they would do in Hollywood to add a little excitement without a second thought about whether or not it "fit in". In a previous post you mentioned something about dumbing these down for an American audience. I believe you mentioned Appointment with Death in connection with this statement. Remember this is England in the 1950's, takes place in an institution for youth offenders. Why would one of the administrators of the institute dress up like an Indian in front of the youth offenders and make himself look foolish? And What about Carrie Louise and Gina going skinny dipping? What was the purpose of that and how did it add to plot? 

One other thing, I seriously doubt Carrie Louise would have allowed her second husband to be put up with the youth offenders (some of whom are probably violent) behind the fence. Even if she did not like the guy very much (and it seems she did like him) proper English manners and good manners in general would have called for him to be put up for the night in the main house.

TheMole 21 Jul 09 at 12:48 p.m. GMT

I agree w/ S. Sigerson about the use of the Native American attire that a few of the characters were wearing, evidently it wasn't in the book (I assume, b/c I have not read it) & it was a bit offensive. 

I also think that A Pocket Full of Rye was superb --& better than They Do it With Mirrors -- I consider it the best of the Miss Marple's so far. However I do like the adapt for They Do it With Mirrors...my Mom & I watched it & she said that they had changed a few things from the book to make it seem more theatrical but overall she liked it. And Emma Malin, as go leafs pointed out, was one of the best actresses in the entire adapt she really gave it a lot of life.

Murder is Easy was absolutely dreadful. This would have been the best of the non-series books for Miss Marple to be in & I feel as though the writers blew it!

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 10:05 a.m. GMT

One more thing: (trying to bump my last pst out of the "recent posts" section) for me, Hickson's They Do It With Mirrors had one vital flaw: it felt too much like a TV movie. The shots are often wooden, and the cutting rarely produces any tension whatsoever. Although the acting is fine, you can tell from a mile that this is a TV movie, and I often got bored while watching. (The music, incidentally, often follows the feel of the opening titles, which often does not work, such as over the discovery of the corpse)

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 9:49 a.m. GMT

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I almost forgot: even if Lewis had done the deed while smearing the theatrical makeup and so on, it would be understandable. Facing a crazed secretary at gunpoint is not high on my to-do list. It would probably be understood as anxiety and tension, not physical exhaustion.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 9:44 a.m. GMT

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The "Indian Chief Theatrical", as you put it S Sigerson, actually works out for me. It makes the confrontation between Edgar and Lewis Serrocold that much more immersing. It would've been far more boring to merely hear their voices. Here, everyone is given an excuse to sit in the room, everyone witnesses the confrontation, making it more suspenseful and gripping. You can see Edgar has a gun, you can see him pointing it at people, he's even fired it a few times. It really makes this scene far more cinematic.

Of course the traditional (almost obligatory) scrap of paper is unlikely, but then again, how many times in AC have crime scenes come complete with a mysterious scrap of paper? From Sad Cypress to The Mysterious Affair at Styles, the scrap of paper follows a great and noble tradition of leaving hints behind.

Johnny couldn't have poisoned Carrie Louise- but he could've had an accomplice on the inside, while he did the killing of Christian, who had found out (as his informant told him). I didn't think he was really that much of a waste of space.

Incidentally, I believe Lewis poisoned Ernest, because he was getting a bit too friendly with Johnny. Wouldn't want him to learn the family secret, now would we?

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 9:44 a.m. GMT

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Of course, I forgot that PBS tends to cut episodes, often ruining the sound mix while they're at it. You'd actually be surprised how much difference a little time can make. When making Terminator 2: Judgement Day, James Cameron ended up cutting about seven minutes of footage. Looking at the over 2.5 hours length, the seven minutes seems to be irrelevant. Yet, the version with the seven minutes has often been argued to be even better than the original theatrical release.

Now that I've finished my analogy, let me clear something up. Earlier, I said gay people in "Marple" tend to be the killer. What I meant was, that in this newest series, if a character turns out to be gay, they are often the murderer. The Body in the Library does this, as does Nemesis, and arguably At Bertram's Hotel. There is only one recent adaptations that includes gay characters who are not the murderers: A Murder is Announced.

Returning to They Do It With Mirrors, I think Christian sounded ominous, as you described it, shanty sleuth, because he was concerned about Carrie Louise, and whether she would be able to handle the shock. Thus, he tried to ensure that as few people as possible would get a hint of what was going on, lowering his voice slightly and such, lending to this effect.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 7:02 a.m. GMT

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Stephen Restarick was introduced in the Joan Hickson version. Perhaps to add another suspect to the list. In the book Alex Restarick did not have a brother. Johnny Restarick was mentioned in passing. Putting this aside and as I mentioned before, I do not expect them to follow the novels word for word. What I do expect is a coherent and enjoyable mystery. I realize you do have to suspend you disbelief, but there is a big difference between suspending your disbelief and throwing it out the window.

I would say PBS cut arrproximately 5 minutes, in which case I doubt that would it would make difference. It's possible cutting 15, 20 or 30 minutes might make a difference. In my estimation, this is a weak adaptation from the writing standpoint. Besides, I did not have a problem following the story in A Pocket Full of Rye or Murder is Easy. I am sure they made cuts to these as well. I won't even comment on the secret passage. Though I will mention how are we to be expected to believe an elderly overweight man ran around the house (a large one at that), up the flight of steps to the 2nd floor (1st floor in the UK), stab a person in the back, make the changes to the letter and be back downstairs within two minutes and here is the kicker - without working up a sweat and not be out of breath. Even if he was able to do all this in 2 minutes there is no way he would not have worked a sweat especially wearing theatrical make-up, which doesn't allow your skin to breath very well.

And the Indian Chief Theaterical Production along with the ending in Wyoming? Really.....this is England...

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 7:02 a.m. GMT

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After the fire it looked like the study was cleaned, so I don't buy one little scrap of paper being left behind. Especially since Miss. Marple came 6 or 7 weeks after the fire. It was apparent they got rid of the  rest of the furniture and left the filling cabinets. Sounds contrived to me and an important scrape of paper is not original.     

To me introducing Johnny Restarick was just a way to fill in space. He served no purpose except for perhaps a little comic relief. However, at the expense of the mystery since as you pointed out he could not have poisoned Carrie Louise nor did he have a motive for the murder. Dr. Maverick was important because he could have poisoned Carrie Louise and had an exellent motive for the murder, yet in this version you would never know it. It would have made more sense to give Dr. Maverick more of a role.  

shanty_sleuth 21 Jul 09 at 6:06 a.m. GMT

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Finally, the only thing that was a bit off for me was the ambiguity regarding Carrie Louise at the end. Miss Marple mentioned something about secrets, and Carrie Louise asked her about how much she knew. Did Carrie Louise know about Lewis? And I didn't pick up on who poisoned Ernest's oysters - was it Lewis or Carrie Louise? Miss Marple seemed to be looking at Carrie Louise when she was explaining, but it wouldn't make sense if it were Carrie Louise, as she lost so much in that fire. So it must have been Lewis, but what was up with that conversation with Miss Marple and Carrie Louise before the revealing of the solution? That was the only thing I didn't understand...

Like I said before, my favourite adaptation out of the four new ones and an enjoyable whodunnit overall.

shanty_sleuth 21 Jul 09 at 5:59 a.m. GMT

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(case in point: 4.50 from Paddington with Lucy Eylesbarrow dumping Bryan Eastley for Inspector Tom Campbell, Sleeping Murder with Gwenda Halliday dumping Charles Vanstone for Hugh Hornbeam, The Moving Finger with Jerry Burton and Megan Hunter connecting, as well as Joanna Burton and Dr. Owen Griffith, By the Pricking of My Thumbs with Tommy and Tuppence Beresford reconnecting, The Sittaford Mystery with Emily Trefusis dumping James Pearson and a murderous and quite dead Charles Burnaby for Violet Willett, Towards Zero with Audrey Strange and Thomas Royde connecting, At Bertram's Hotel with Jane Cooper and Inspector Larry Bird connecting, and Why Didn't They Ask Evans? with Bobby Attfield dumping a murderous and quite murdered Moira Nicholson for Frankie Derwent - who also dumped a murderous and quite murdered Roger Bassington). This estrangement between Wally and Gina and their eventual rekindling is just another addition to this list.

shanty_sleuth 21 Jul 09 at 5:57 a.m. GMT

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The little interaction between Gina and Wally makes the viewer believe that their marriage is on the rocks, and this point is emphasized in Carrie Louise's belief that their marriage was rushed into (a point that was cut from PBS' airing). For the entire episode, we are led to believe that Gina is really in love with Stephen. Of course, this sets up the happy ending that is typical in the series - the two people who are unsure that they love each other actually do and either begin a relationship or rekindle their existing one, usually dumping the person they thought they cared for...

shanty_sleuth 21 Jul 09 at 5:55 a.m. GMT

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The scene with Wally escaping on his bicycle was random, but one can assume that he wanted to leave and didn't care about anyone but himself. His homesickness, I suppose, got the best of him. Dr. Maverick is nothing but a tertiary character, and except for providing the clue of Edgar believing Lewis was his father, he is not important. Christian Gulbrandsen, like go_leafs said, was always randomly introduced. Everything about Carrie Louise's family is adequately covered. The one thing about the Gulbrandsen character that I didn't like was his creepy way of speaking. He seemed to sound deliberately ominous for no reason. It was hard to feel sorry for him when he was murdered, although I don't think he was underdeveloped. Carrie Louise said that Christian was always so precise about his appearance, so I gather he was just a man who wanted to be precise in every way - even when talking. Johnny Restarick is basically Alex Restarick from the book, only instead of being Stephen's brother, he is his father and Carrie Louise's former husband. I did check about him, and he is mentioned briefly in the book, so he is not a new character, per say. The character is charming and unscrupulous, and I did not care if he wasn't technically in the book, as he was a fun character. It was easy to see why he had to be killed - he was not stupid and did not hide his suspicions. Rutman did not throw him in for nothing - he serves the purpose as a red herring for the police, despite having no motive (as he could never have poisoned Carrie Louise due to him not living with her).

shanty_sleuth 21 Jul 09 at 5:53 a.m. GMT

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I agree with go_leafs_nation. I thoroughly enjoyed They Do It with Mirrors... that is, the unedited version. Unfortunately, PBS had to trim and cut away at the episode due to time constraints. Which is why, S. Sigerson, it was so rushed and difficult to follow. A lot of character development (regarding Mildred) was cut, and Wally's important conversation with Miss Marple was, as well. It explains everything about his character. When I saw it again, I did not enjoy it as much as the first time because of the network's meddling.

This is easily the best episode of this season for me. The non-Marple adaptations of Murder is Easy and Why Didn't They Ask Evans? barely resemble their respective books, and A Pocket Full of Rye, though faithful, was strangely lifeless and not very engaging. Here we have an adaptation that is both faithful and interesting. The acting is fantastic for the most part, with talents like Emma Griffiths Malin and Brian Cox delivering top-notch performances. The principal players are very developed and seem real (even with Joan Collins' overacting). The mystery is reasonably straightforward, and the solution (once the misdirections are cleared away) is childishly simple. Miss Marple only needed a few clues to realize that wool had been pulled over her eyes. Once she knew the who and how, it was easy to figure out the why. By realizing that the murderer was lying about Carrie Louise's poisoning plot ('accidentally' dropping the tonic, Carrie Louise's healthy fingernails), it was relatively easy for her. Christian came for another reason, he was adamant to see Lewis, Lewis was the one who removed the letter, the fire was set for a reason, and a scrap of paper told her why. It's all laid out. Put two and two together and everything suddenly becomes clear. No, Miss Marple had enough clues to solve this mystery.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 5:41 a.m. GMT

Out of twelve Miss. Marples with Geraldine McEwan, four Miss. Marples with Julia Mckenzie and I believe something like twelve Miss. Marples with Joan Hickson, how many out of twenty-seven had a culprit who was gay?

Why is it unlikely for the time period? Were there no gay people whether real or fictional in the 1950's? I can name one example, the play Cat on a Hot Tin Roof by Tennessee Williams written in the 1950's,  most certainly has a gay character.

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 5:15 a.m. GMT

It wasn’t Joan Collin’s acting, it was the lines she was given. I think the role calls for an over-the-top American.

I disagree; in the right hands you could make some really good modern Miss. Marples and Poirots.

I would like to clarify one thing, when I compare the Hickson and McKenzie versions. I do not consider one better than the other. I consider them separate and judge them on their individual merits. In my estimation, one works and makes sense; the other one does not.    

S_Sigerson 21 Jul 09 at 5:13 a.m. GMT

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In the Joan Hickson version, at the beginning Christian Gulbrandsen is examining the books for the trust, so we suspect something is wrong. He goes out to Stoneygates to confront the person responsible. Next thing Christian Gulbrandsen is dead and it appears the likely subject could not have done it, yet he did do it. That is the genius of Agatha Christie.

In the novel and in the Joan Hickson version, the murderer committed the crime to avoid exposure for bankrupting the trust. We can infer by committing the murder the person was hoping to buy more time to raise outside funds to replace the money that was in the trust. We actually see him trying to raise money in the Joan Hickson version. Carrie Louise's personal assets, which I assume included the house were not and could not be touched. So even if the murderer could not replace the money they might still have been able to find a way to cover up what happened and keep Carrie Louise from finding out. And they would not be out on the street. Now in the latest version, the murderer's motive is pretty much the same, but what does the person hope to achieve? Are they going to do away with Ruth Van Rydock (Joan Collin’s character) who in this version is co-trustee and surely would have known about the financial situation of the trust? It makes no sense because based on what we know from the information given to us the outcome would have been the same even had Christian Gulbrandsen lived – bankruptcy and the estate sold off and exposure, so why commit the murder? The logic is flawed. Whereas, in the Joan Hickson version we are presented with a credible motive. We and Miss. Marple are presented with all the relevant facts and background information including physical evidence to enable us to figure what happened and for Miss. Marple to solve the crime without a Ouija board.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 1:19 a.m. GMT

Although Johnny's appearance made me think "what???", the adaptation quickly made up for it, explaining his presence rather well (although instantly betraying a clue that takes the film about 40 minutes to get around to). Of course, it instantly made sense why he was killed- he figured out how it was done and whodunnit. I thought it was obvious in the actor's performance-- watch him repeat the line about illusions, this time with a meaningful glance. Subtle, yet effective.

Gina has too little interaction with her husband, that I agree with. I still think that this aspect was pulled off well, though- not as much as they could've done, but not a three-hour overkill.

Joan Collins, incidentally, was, for me at least, the weakest actor of the piece. She overacted, to put it in one word. Her character was completely unappealing.

Overall, however, I consider They Do It With Mirrors a fantastic success.

go_leafs_nation 21 Jul 09 at 1:14 a.m. GMT

I disagree with your evaluation of They Do It With Mirrors. I, personally, was outraged at Kevin Elyot's altered ending for The Body in the Library. It was something completely unnecessary, and quite unlikely given the time period. Besides, even if I liked it, gay people in "Marple" are the culprits practically every time. It got old fast.

For a 90-minute time frame, the characters of "Mirrors" are very well developped, I'd argue. They are characterised much more subtly, and actually feel more like characters than the novel's stale carboard cutouts. Christian's appearance in the novel was also "random"- as much of the family history is reasonably is squeezed into the adapt (avoiding boredom), and when Christian appears, we learn a bit more. The doctor wasn't much of a character, but the inspectors themselves are rarely characters in these film either, are they? I see no need for a fully-rounded character in him- he serves his purpose and that's that- no need for added confusion.

However, the unexplained "bike-car-pedestrian" chase also left me wondering what was going on. This felt random (although, when rewatching it, I really admired the direction that was able to suspend my disbelief for just the time it required to get by the chase).

I disagree with your final statement, that Poirot and Marple should be updated. The mess Alfred Molina's version made of "Murder on the Orient Express" has made me completely opposed to it. Poirot and Miss Marple do not belong in 2009- they really and truly feel at home only in the timeframe where AC wrote them in. It's unnecessary and distracting. The producers have already gone overboard with all the unnecessary alterations to Christie-- let's not add another terrible move to their repertoire.

S_Sigerson 20 Jul 09 at 9:58 p.m. GMT

I enjoyed the first two, A Pocket Full of Rye and Murder Is Easy. I admit I had a few issues. Overall they were good mysteries and fun to watch. I am going to hold my judgment on Why Didn’t They Ask Evans? until I have seen it. I am still looking forward to seeing it. I normally do not complain. I think it is a waste of time. And I am sure the people at AgathaChristie.com are rolling their eyes by now; however, I actually felt like I wasted an hour and half of my time. Perhaps it’s time Chorion updates Miss. Marple and Poirot to modern times. Take a chance. Do something new and different.     

S_Sigerson 20 Jul 09 at 9:57 p.m. GMT

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Finally, what’s with Wally fleeing the scene of the crime on a bicycle; being chased by the police in a car; followed by Gina jogging behind police car? I was waiting for the hounds and someone to yell, “tally-ho”. It wasn’t even funny. It was just – preposterous.  

S_Sigerson 20 Jul 09 at 9:56 p.m. GMT

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I found too many inconsistencies in They Do It With Mirrors. There is no character development, no foundation and felt was rushed and convoluted. It was difficult to follow the story.  The Joan Hickson version made sense and was enjoyable to watch. You followed the story with eager anticipation. And there were clues for Miss. Marple, so she could solve the crime. In the McKenzie version I don't see how Miss. Marple was able to solve the mystery or how the murderer was able to do it. And character development? All of sudden Christian Gulbrandsen pops out of nowhere. Who is Christian Gulbrandsen? First time we see Dr. Maverick is when the police where questioning him after the murder. The next time (and the only other time) we see the doctor is when he is rushing through the hall the main house acting like a lunatic, past a startled Joan Collins (who had a - what the heck is going on look on her face…I felt like this through the entire program) to infirmary, which made no sense because the infirmary for the JDs (juvenile delinquents) would not be in the main house. Why include Dr. Maverick at all if you are not going to develop the character? There was no or very little background information on Dr. Maverick or Mr. Gulbrandsen. A bad thing indeed when you are dealing with murder mystery. What about the introduction of Johnny Restarick? What was his motive for murder or why would someone want to murder him? It was like the writer just through him in for heck of it. It made no sense. There was not enough interaction between Gina and her husband, Wally. Why did Gina turn to Alex Restarick who we know very little about? Why was Wally so unhappy and what’s Alex’s motive for murder or why would someone want to murder him? In the Joan Hickson version you know why Gina and Wally are unhappy, why Gina turns to Alex because the characters interact with one another and develop as the story proceeds.

S_Sigerson 20 Jul 09 at 9:54 p.m. GMT

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I was totally disappointed with They Do It With Mirrors. When Joan was leaving in the Rolls (the first time, she was in and out several times for no apparent reason), I wanted to hop aboard and say, “care for dinner at The Ivy in London Joan, followed by a show - my treat” that is how bored and confused I was. They should have got a writer like Kevin Elyot who adapted The Body in the Library to adapt They Do It With Mirrors. Over the years I have come to the conclusion the twist In the Body in the Library was clever and pure Agatha Christie misdirection. In the books Agatha Christie played on the reader’s bias and prejudices to fool the reader. Distrust of foreigners, distain for the lower classes and dislike for good for nothing lay abouts etc., to shift the reader’s focus from the real culprit. Kevin Elyot did the same thing in The Body in the Library and pulled it off admirably. Afterwards it seemed so simple and obvious who the murderer was, yet I am sure many people (myself included) did not figure it out.

go_leafs_nation 17 Jul 09 at 1:19 a.m. GMT

Thanks, GKCfan! My more recent reviews are better (if I say so myself), as I've slowly become more and more aware of cinematic qualities in these films.

GKCfan 17 Jul 09 at 1:09 a.m. GMT

Great work!  I'm enjoying your reviews a lot.

go_leafs_nation 16 Jul 09 at 6:18 p.m. GMT

Here is the link to my review of They Do It With Mirrors:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1297403/usercomments-2

go_leafs_nation 16 Jul 09 at 4:32 p.m. GMT

Well, I have now seen the entire latest series of Marple with They Do It With Mirrors. I'll post a link to my IMDb review once it is approved.

TheMole 15 Jul 09 at 5:24 p.m. GMT

Yeah. But One Two Buckle My Shoe was like one of the hardest to portray on screen but they managed to be extremely faithful. Ideally I'm sure the producers for Evans could have found a way to incorporate the golf course.

go_leafs_nation 15 Jul 09 at 5 p.m. GMT

Well, it's a minor point in comparison. The imagery wouldn't have much of a chance of getting caught well on tape either way. Still, the way they went around doing this was... awkward.

TheMole 15 Jul 09 at 2:20 p.m. GMT

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Thanks, go leafs. I think that that's deplorable: to change the fact that Bobby was golfing; that whole scenery is so memorable!

Boomcoach 15 Jul 09 at 1:03 p.m. GMT

We recognized her, especially her voice, as "Moaning Myrtle" from the 5th Harry Potter movie.

go_leafs_nation 14 Jul 09 at 9:51 p.m. GMT

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Hm... The worst scene... There are so many, it's hard to choose. Brace yourself for literally any scene involving Dorothy Savage (or "Dottie"). One of her very first lines, "My gosh! You're rather pretty!" or something along those lines, made me cringe. She's a despicable caricature. The actress' line delivery is really poor.

Oh, but the opening is slightly embarassing. Bobby no longer discovers the body when playing golf. He is engaged in... er... fighting an imaginary war?

Oh, and the "Evans" clue is spoonfed to the audience. A character named Evans is created just for the purpose of shoving this clue down the audience's throat. With Evans, several subplots are introduced...

S_Sigerson 14 Jul 09 at 8:26 p.m. GMT

Trainspotting...definitely not the film I am thinking of...even though I am not sure I have ever seen Trainspotting, but who knows...one does see so many films it is difficult to remember them all...  

S_Sigerson 14 Jul 09 at 8:20 p.m. GMT

And please use a "spoiler" for those of us who have not seen it and would like to be surpised when we do see it.

TheMole 14 Jul 09 at 5:49 p.m. GMT

I read your IMDB review go leafs. All I can say is that I am "frightened" & skeptical to watch the adapt.

To be further prepared, what's the absolutely worst scene??

go_leafs_nation 14 Jul 09 at 3:11 p.m. GMT

Looking at her filmography, I can see that one of her more popular films was "Trainspotting".

S_Sigerson 14 Jul 09 at 2:38 p.m. GMT

No, it wasn't the fairly recent Miss. Pettigrew Lives for a Day. The film I am thinking of was made in the 1990's. I wish I could remember the name of the film.

S_Sigerson 14 Jul 09 at 2:48 a.m. GMT

I will wait to see, Why Didn't They Ask Evans? and decide for myself whether or not I like the adaptation. I don't want to be influenced by what others think. Perhaps after I see it, I will read Goleafs review.    

GKCfan 13 Jul 09 at 11:27 p.m. GMT

Great review, go_leafs!  Very perceptive.  It makes me want to see the adaptation for the good parts, and I'm ready to complain about the changes.

go_leafs_nation 13 Jul 09 at 11:09 p.m. GMT

For all those dying to read my review of Why Didn't They Ask Evans?, you can follow the link below:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1276406/usercomments-3

go_leafs_nation 13 Jul 09 at 8:13 p.m. GMT

I just watched Why Didn't They Ask Evans?... It'll definately be a controversial one...

TheMole 13 Jul 09 at 8:10 p.m. GMT

The lady who played Honoria Waynflete, you may have seen her in Miss. Pettigrew Lives for a Day. I am not quite sure but I believe she talked for that cat (who coincidentally enough looked like Wonky-Poo in MIE) in the movie Babe.

S_Sigerson 13 Jul 09 at 5:32 p.m. GMT

I really liked Murder is Easy. I am getting quite used to Julia McKenzie in the role of Miss. Marple. I look forward to seeing, They Do It With Mirrors and Why Didn't They Ask Evans?. Miss. Marple along with Luke and PC Terence Weed were quite good as the investigative team. I have seen the actress who played Honoria Waynflete before, but for the life of me I can't remember in what. And I couldn't believe Sylvia Syms. Granted it was small role, but I didn't recognize her at all. I have seen Joan Hickson in several films she was in back in the 50's and even though she was a lot older when she played Miss. Marple, I still was able to recognize her. I also enjoyed the 1982 adaptation of Murder is Easy. 

TheMole 13 Jul 09 at 3:20 p.m. GMT

I agree go leafs! I thought the same thing! But it wouldn't be so confusing if they didn't get the actors to play in another of her books adapts if they didn't often choose the same actors who were the murderer(s) in another one.

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Did you know that Emma Malin plays in The Mirror Crack'd but she also played Jackie in Death on the Nile.

go_leafs_nation 13 Jul 09 at 2:59 p.m. GMT

The one critiscism I have to level against both "Poirot" and "Marple" is that they often use the same actors and actresses. Miss Rich in Cat Among the Pigeons, for instance, also plays Amy in A Murder is Announced. The actor playing "Bobby" in Ordeal by Innocence makes an appearance in Appointment With Death. Zoe Wanamaker is Mrs. Oliver in a few of the Poirots, but also appears as Letitia Blacklock in A Murder is Announced. They ought to use more actors (although the ones they choose often do a nice job, it becomes slightly confusing).

go_leafs_nation 13 Jul 09 at 1:10 p.m. GMT

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It never was clear what her intentions were; she wasn't absolutely sure herself. The film presented it well, I thought.

TheMole 13 Jul 09 at 12:24 p.m. GMT

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Go leafs I have a question: MRS MCGINTY'S DEAD SPOILERS I have forgotten, did Maude Williams visit Mrs. Upward to shoot her or did they add that part to the adapt??

go_leafs_nation 12 Jul 09 at 9:15 p.m. GMT

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(POST CONTINUED)

Third Girl has many plot changes, but it only helps-- the book could get rather dull and boring, and these problems (particularly Mrs. Oliver's deus ex machina appearances) are ironed out. It's a fun adaptation.

Appointment With Death is the worst of the lot, and extremely disappointing, particularly since Ustinov's version is also a failure. AWD's plot changes are ridiculous to say the least, although it is one of the more interesting ones, cinematically speaking. It succeeds in building some sort of suspense here and there, but overall feels like the novel is being dumbed down for an American audience used to big-budget, loud blockbusters. It is my least favourite episode to date, and also the only one that I rated below 5 stars on IMDb to date. Besides, the killer is, essentially,changed. "It's just an accomplice," some might say, but the new "accomplice" is the mastermind behind it all.

I have yet to see the remaining Miss Marple episodes, but hope I will see them sometime. I like Julia Mackenzie in the role; she far outshines Geraldine McEwan.

go_leafs_nation 12 Jul 09 at 9:15 p.m. GMT

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First off, I'd just like to say "hello" to HerculeJC, whom I haven't heard from in a long time.

I have only seen Murder is Easy and A Pocket Full of Rye from Mackenize. While I loved APFOR, I found Murder is Easy to be changed too much for its own good. The plot is no longer plausible, particularly the murder of Miss Pinkerton, who is shoved down an escalator-- despite the fact that there are people going next to each other, side-by-side, two ways. The murder would've certainly been spotted. Also, it wouldn't be possible for the killer to then walk calmly right by the body-- a crowd would've formed almost for certain, unless people falling and dying from escalators is a normal occurence.

I liked A Pocket Full of Rye, which was decently faithful, while being short. While I consider Hickson's adapt to be the better one, it is also a little too long.

As for the new Poirots (I've seen them all), I loved Mrs. McGinty's Dead. It was brilliantly executed. Mrs. Oliver' character was not cartoonish, and Wanamaker was brilliant in the role once more. She was quite hilarious, and besides, my favourite scene, where she and RObin collaborate on a play, was fantastically translated onscreen.

Cat Among the Pigeons, on the other hand, made a little more plot changes than McGinty. However, they all work! It's reasonably faithful, and a few plot changes here and there facilitate its translation on screen. This also helps reducing the number of characters-- with a plot change, Miss Vansittart no longer is a necessary character.

HerculeJC 11 Jul 09 at 11:23 p.m. GMT

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For me, I admit the ending of the new version of "A Pocket Full of Rye" was faithful to the book, except that I seem to recall that Lance was not present when Miss Marple left from Yew Tree Lodge.

Other parts of the book were fairly faithful; just noted that the acting was too stilted and caricatured.

I also disagree that Aunt Effie's role was too slight; she added a certain flair as the person who could foretell doom coming to many of the characters.

I do want to see "Murder With Mirrors", after noting the Hickson version and the Helen Hayes TV movie; will see how those compare with Julia McKenzie's version.

I'll see how Miss Marple in "Murder is Easy" and "Why Didn't They Ask Evans" comes out, but I think I would prefer the original versions of those novels.

TheMole 09 Jul 09 at 3:23 p.m. GMT

HI HJC!!!

TheMole 09 Jul 09 at 3:21 p.m. GMT

Oh I loved the Cat Among the Pigeons adapt! It was so well done! And pretty faithful to the book. I would watch that over & over again & not get bored. I also prefer the fact that Poirot is a friend of Mrs. Bullstrode; she seems like the type of woman who would appreciate Poirot's little gray cells. And they showed each teacher's personality, which I thought was very thorough. And the plot was fully developed, nothing was rushed & it all made sense to those who hadn't read it before or who haven't read it for some time.

I had high hopes for Mrs. McGinty's Dead but it was only kind of half faithful to the book. I mean, they deleted several characters liked Deidre, & the description of Maude Williams was drastically changed. I didn't find Mrs. Oliver really all that funny & I was looking forward to seeing the apples topple off of her lap when she got out of the car & roll down the street, I thought for sure they were going to incorporate that as it really gives 'new AC fans' a good idea of how Ms. Oliver was...but at least they had her throw the apple :0). I thought that the men they got for all of the roles had roughly the same physical characteristics & a friend of mine who was watching w/ me (who hasn't read Christie) kept getting confused as to which man was who! I have to agree, I mean they were all tall, had roughly the same color hair, & the same build! I did like the pictures that they used for Lily Gambol and Eva Caine, it was creepy but very emotional. I also liked the set designing everything that was done, the houses, the general store, all looked exactly as AC described it. I also liked the way they set up the stage for Poirot to reveal the culprit(s).

S_Sigerson 08 Jul 09 at 3:46 p.m. GMT

The McKenzie version of A Pocket Full of Rye follows the book more closely. The ending in particular was practically taken word for word from the book. In the Hickson version of A Pocket Full of Rye the ending was drastically altered.  

I found the latest A Pocket Full of Rye enjoyable. Aunt Effie had such a small role you really don't miss her. Even though in the Hickson version, I still remember (with a smile) when Miss. Marple arrived on the scene and she quoted from the Bible and immediately Aunt Effie said to Miss. Marple, you  are going to stay in the house. What an entrance. If only all it took was a quote from the Bible to stay in a rather a posh and grand country estate.    

HerculeJC 06 Jul 09 at 3:23 a.m. GMT

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First off, I admit that, due to several issues I have not been active on this Site.

Tonight I watched "A Pocket Full of Rye", with Julia McKenzie.

My feelings: I'll stick with Joan Hickson.  She is the real Miss Jane Marple, in my opinion.

Julia McKenzie comes across as an older version of Angela Lansbury, as both Miss Marple and Jessica Fletcher.

I was disappointed that Aunt Effie was omitted and Crump was portrayed as an alcoholic.

The other characters acted more as charicatures of themselves.

Number3 05 Jul 09 at 8:59 p.m. GMT

GK PBS might be editing some of the films.  But, I recently saw "Evil Under the Sun" and it was only 90 minutes.

S_Sigerson 02 Jul 09 at 11:11 p.m. GMT

They should allow two hours to avoid cutting the material. I wonder why they changed the format. One of the advantages of PBS was they did not air commericals, thus were able to show the program without cuts.

AndThenThereWasTim 30 Jun 09 at 7:39 p.m. GMT

I saw Cat.. It was Good :) They edited from the original book (different, yet cooler, murder weapon.. Took out a few characters ect.) it a little but it was acceptable.. I also saw Mrs. McGinty.. It was good too but I haven't read the book So i dont know how deeply it was editied

GKCfan 26 Jun 09 at 5:22 p.m. GMT

Poirot episodes are about 90-100 minutes.  PBS schedules 90 minutes for Masterpiece Mystery!  They used to allow two hours, I don't know why they don't give the extra time now.  When you include introductions by guest celebrities and sponsor credits, they need to edit at least five minutes and sometimes more out of each episode.  Often, scenes with pivotal clues are cut, making the viewing experience disjointed.  They need to start airing uncut episodes again.

S_Sigerson 26 Jun 09 at 11:37 a.m. GMT

Really? PBS airs programs without commercials. Usually shows are cut to allow for commercials, so I don't see why PBS would need to make any changes or cuts.

GKCfan 25 Jun 09 at 6:49 p.m. GMT

Not yet.  "Cat Among the Pigeons" aired on PBS this week, but I understand it's been edited for time, so I'm waiting for the DVD.

TheMole 25 Jun 09 at 2:38 p.m. GMT

Has anyone seen Poirot yet?

S_Sigerson 01 Jun 09 at 5:03 p.m. GMT

How thrilling!!!!! I am so excited about seeing Julia McKenzie in the role of Miss. Marple.  Just another in a long line of fine actresses to portray the indelible lady from St Mary Mead.

GKCfan 31 May 09 at 2:01 a.m. GMT

Since I first posted this news, PBS has changed its website and schedule so that all four new Marples will air.  My information was correct at the time it was posted.

PhillyTom 31 May 09 at 1:37 a.m. GMT

Actually, they are showing all four of the Miss Marples and two Poirots.

TheMole 15 Apr 09 at 7:52 p.m. GMT

:0) Thanks! And I remember PBS mentioning that they'd air it last year. They are just not handling the Poirot episodes properly. However, I have no doubt that they won't keep their word about airing the MM episodes, since they've been consistent in airing her.

GKCfan 15 Apr 09 at 6:42 p.m. GMT

Hi Mole!  Haven't heard from you in a while!  Great to see you here! 

Of course, a year ago PBS said they'd air "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" and "Cat Among the Pigeons" last summer, and they cancelled it a month before the air date.  They could add the other two Poirots and one Marple at any point.

TheMole 15 Apr 09 at 5:17 p.m. GMT

Hello GKC, how are you?

Thanks for that: I was wondering when it would finally air.

Noah 13 Apr 09 at 10:36 p.m. GMT

I'm sure it will be Mrs. McGinty's Dead and Cat Among the Pigeons for the Poirot's and A Pocket Full of Rye, Murder is Easy and Why Didn't They Ask Evans? for the Marples.

Third Girl and Appointment with death will probably be aired a little later and the entire production of They Do It With Mirrors is kind of missing in action.